bebbetufs

How do you all keep the gasket from squishing out when torquing down the bolts? This is my third atempt and my third gasket and no matter how carefully and thoroughly I follow all the recommended procedures it squeezes out at the front and rear ends beside the hoops. I even imported a tube of grey hylomar as I thought my firs failure was due to me using a loctite sealant for the corners.

Rant mode on:
First time I installed the oil pan I had the engine on a stand. I didn't know that this was a potential trouble spot, so I figured as long as I did it according to the manual I'd be good. Wrong...I had steady drips from all corners and would not have passed the emissions control, yes leaks count over here. I then had to tackle the job with the engine in the car. This time it squished out as well, but not as much as the first time. I decided to not risk it, considering the massive amount of work needed to do this on a 951. By this time I was so frustrated I parked the car for the season. Today I installed the third gasket I bought, but of course that one bulges as well, even though everything was meticulously planned and cleaned. I even had small blocks of wood between the flywheel and the pan in the back, and between the fan casing and pan in the front to keep it from creeping out. It still did and I'm afraid it will leak again. The anti-bulging profiles that are available won't help me as it never bulges on the long straights only at either end of the engine. Rant mode off.

I need advice on how to get this sorted ASAP, I've had this car since 2009 and been able to drive 500 kilometers total.

Izzy Does It

You mentioned that you had followed procedures but I thought I would include a photo dipicting the order in which the bolts should be torque to specifications. As you know, excessive torque will cause "squish", as well as snapped fasteners. That said the torque sequence is as follows:

1. First Torque: 4 Nm (3 ft-lbs)
2. Second Torque: 8 Nm (6 ft-lbs)

bebbetufs

Thanks, I have that in my workshop manual.

For a late 951 (1990) the manual says 3 stages.

1.hand tight.
2. 4 newton IIRC
3. 9.5 newton.

My problems are in the read areas.


Can I reuse the gasket I installed today for a fourth atempt if I have to do this again?

Izzy Does It

I am following this with interest. I am 2 bolts away from dropping the pan on my S2. I certainly hope that I can avoid the "squish" and leak problems. I don't have the grey hylomar. I have the Permatex Ultra Grey rigid high-torque RTV silicon gasket maker. Permatex claims "outstanding oil resistance".

bebbetufs

The problem with the different silicon sealants I have used (permatex, loctite) seem to be that they don't bond to the rubber, only to the metal. If anything they seem to act as a lubricant for the rubber to slide on. I suspect that the sealant Porsche used, which apparently costs $300 a tube, acts more like a bonding agent then a sealant, thus keeping the gasket from moving. As far as I'm conscerned resistance to oil is pretty much taken care of by all the major brands.

Techno Duck

The silastic stuff called for in the manual is indeed very sticky. I would look around and see if you can find stuff called Yamabond. There are many old threads about using this stuff which is used to seal motorcycle engine cases together. Its a much cheaper alternative.

bebbetufs

Hey Techno, any leads on where to actually get the silastic goo?

Techno Duck

Check out Engine Builders Supply (ebsracing.com)

http://www.ebsracing.com/buyerbrowse...ALS@@Chemicals

I am almost 100% sure DC730 (SOLVENT RESISTANT CASE SEALANT) is the same stuff, just 'silastic' was dropped from the name. A buddy of mine bought a tube of this stuff a few years ago and i have used it on a few oil pan gaskets and non have leaked. Its been a few years since i did the pan but i do remember the stuff was really tacky. Its not cheap especially when you may use all of 1/8th of the tube doing 1 oil pan gasket. I would maybe take a chance using Yamabond-4. You can get a tube of that stuff for about $15 and many people have had success using it in place of the silastic.

BTW: If you google Dow Corning 730 and look at the shopping results you can find it for about $85 a tube. I hope my buddy has some left because i am dropping the pan on my 951 in a few weeks .

bebbetufs

Is the yamabond not a silicone? I'm in Norway and it is really hard to get this stuff over here. for me to import a tube it would have to be a lot better than the permatex ultra grey and loctite I already have tried.

M758

That proceedure is not quite right. The reason is hand tight is deceptive.

I have completed 5-6 pan gaskets over the last few year on engine stands and under cars. Never any leakers. The proceedure I used is go around the torque sequence 5-6 times before I even apply any torque at all. I start at the number 1 bolt and tigthen to finger tight. This means I am past the run down on the treads and the bolt seats. Then move to the next one. I follow the sequence and get I get back to number 1 bolt I find it loose. Completely lose. So I turn it again till it stops again with zero torque just finger tight. I then go around again and find all the bolts loose again. I do this 5-6 times until all bolts are finger tight. Once the bolts don't loosen up any long the pan has seated itselft and gasket is squeezed in solid. At that point I torque one final time to what is basiclly hand tight (5-10ftbls) with 1/4 drive ratchet.

At that point I am done. I figure it takes me a solid hour to do this and it is pain to do this with the engine in the car. However you must take your time as the gasket needs to seat evenly.


Also I always install the gasket dry. Never anything on it. Last time I did it with the engine in the car I used dental floss to hold it to the pan when put it on block. This prevented ot moving around and keeps the surfaces clean. Once I got all the bolt started I removed the floss. You should have no issues reusing the gasket aslong as it is not damaged and it is clean.

vette951s

Check the height of the metal spacer washers against a known original spacer. There was an issue a few years back with an aftermarket supplier of pan gaskets installing shorter spacers which allowed the rubber pan gasket to overcompress and fail. I've used "The Right Stuff" gasket sealant from Permatex with success.

Good luck, John

Lane

Here's what we use on our cars http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...kla944.018.htm never have to worry about it again.

bebbetufs

@ M758 The procedure you described is almost exactly the one we followed. Instead of hand tight the manual should say finger tight. I used a screw driver type handle and socket, and when I could no longer twist the handle with two fingers I considered it done. Did this 5-6 times til all the bolts were "finger tight" and then torqued in two stages with a dial type torque wrench to the specified torque. Only difference is that I've used sealant in all my attempts.

@vette951s Thanks for the heads up. I did not know this. I have tried with both Victor Reinz gasket which failed and actually split around the inserts (first one installed with engine on stand) and now with two aftermarket ones of a generic brand which seem more flexible than the Victor Reinz one. I'll compare the height of the inserts.

@Lane, thanks for the tip, but my problem is at the ends of the pan, where those profiles don't go. See photo above.

M758

That stuff is probably still damp and allowing the gasket to slide around as you torque it down. Dry rubber on steel will not slide around.

Either that or the sealant not allowing the surface to be flush and causing leaks. Don't use it.

Voith

I agree with M758. Don't use any sealant, just clean and dry surfaces and take it slow.