opinions on this deal
03-01-2011, 01:26 PM
#19
Race Director
I am fairly handy and I have decided that if I go for this car I'll do some of the simpler jobs myself. Unfortunately the car is 1300 miles away, and although the timing belt only has 15K miles on it, it's over 4 years old so I think I'd better have it changed right away - before I could even drive the car home. Same goes for the ball joint and new tires. I could do future maintenance myself but I would have to shell out the $90/hour that the shop wants to do this stuff up front. I live in ND where I can't find any 944 turbos for sale so I will have this problem no matter what. .
If tires are gone you will need tires. However you live in ND(North Dakota right). Given how cold it is there do you really want to even be driving it now? Who knows what weather you may hit along the way.
Personaly spend that much for such an old car with that many miles seems like a risk. If I could see it and touch it then it make seem like a solid deal. However 190k is alot of miles and can hide all sorts of issues. Anycar with that many miles will need basic maintenane work and you need to be prepared for that.
03-01-2011, 01:34 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Good points all.
Firstly, when it comes to taking a mechanic's word for the condition of the car, I have little choice: it's that, or I don't buy the car of my dreams. I cannot travel to see more than 1 or maybe 2 cars, and even then the cost of the extra travelling could quickly outweigh the saving of a slightly better deal. I have talked to a few guys in this place including the owner and I'm willing to take the risk and trust them.
Also, most things about a car's condition are fairly objective; if the mechanic says the brakes almost new and the discs are in good condition, for instance, then I'm not likely to form form a different opinion when I look at them myself, unless he turns out to be an outright liar/insane.
He says the paint is good and the car "presents well" but it just not quite the same as the factory finish. This is hard to judge, because I don't know how picky he is compared to me, but my feeling is he's very particular.
I will think about it and maybe consider bargaining more with the seller.
I'm very surprised to hear that you can easily find better conditioned cars than this in this price range though...the mechanic said it was one of the best he'd seen.
It's in North Carolina.
Firstly, when it comes to taking a mechanic's word for the condition of the car, I have little choice: it's that, or I don't buy the car of my dreams. I cannot travel to see more than 1 or maybe 2 cars, and even then the cost of the extra travelling could quickly outweigh the saving of a slightly better deal. I have talked to a few guys in this place including the owner and I'm willing to take the risk and trust them.
Also, most things about a car's condition are fairly objective; if the mechanic says the brakes almost new and the discs are in good condition, for instance, then I'm not likely to form form a different opinion when I look at them myself, unless he turns out to be an outright liar/insane.
He says the paint is good and the car "presents well" but it just not quite the same as the factory finish. This is hard to judge, because I don't know how picky he is compared to me, but my feeling is he's very particular.
I will think about it and maybe consider bargaining more with the seller.
I'm very surprised to hear that you can easily find better conditioned cars than this in this price range though...the mechanic said it was one of the best he'd seen.
where is the car located?
maybe a rennlister is local and can double check it.
maybe a rennlister is local and can double check it.
03-01-2011, 01:39 PM
#21
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This thread got bumped recently, I don't know what happened to this car, but this should give you an idea of what ~$14K can get you.
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...ll-my-car.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...ll-my-car.html
03-01-2011, 01:45 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
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As far as mileage goes, I would consider how often it has been driven in the last few years. A low mileage car that has been virtually unused in the last 3-4 years worries me far more than a higher mileage car that is being driven constantly.
Buying old cars long distance sometimes takes ***** of steel and/or extra cash for the unexpected. Ask yourself where do you fit in?
Best of luck with your decision.
03-01-2011, 01:56 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
As far as mileage goes, I would consider how often it has been driven in the last few years. A low mileage car that has been virtually unused in the last 3-4 years worries me far more than a higher mileage car that is being driven constantly.
I have the car fax report showing the mileage every time this car has it's emissions test and there's nothing odd about the mileage. It has certainly been driven less in the last 4 years (hence the timing belt being old) but it doesn't show signs of being left parked up for very long periods.
Since I don't know much about these cars, can someone give me examples of the kind of issues that the high mileage could cause?
03-01-2011, 02:20 PM
#24
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I think you should just take a look around rennlist. Very nice, well maintained cars seem to be popping up in your price range.
That is what I did when I was looking to buy a turbo and I feel that I got an exceptional deal because I waited and kept and eye on rennlist and got somewhat lucky.
That is what I did when I was looking to buy a turbo and I feel that I got an exceptional deal because I waited and kept and eye on rennlist and got somewhat lucky.
03-01-2011, 02:39 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
OK, here I am..
I bought my 951 with 199K on the clock, paint needed help but other than dash cracks the interior was 99% brand new, sport seats, factory Koni Sport suspension, car drove well, and other than needing to be wet sanded and buffed had few blemishes.
I went in expecting new suspension, brakes, belts, water pump, and possibly turbo would be needed.. I had many of the parts on hand before I bought the car.
I paid $3200 for it.
For $11K I would expect even the mighty turbo S to be near showroom condition, considering I have worked on cars that have sold below the $11K mark that were in showroom, turnkey condition.
the flip side of that coin.. I have also seen 2 951s, locally, 1 of which I have worked on, that were basket cases, that were bought for over $11K.. but both had significant history, and many fewer miles than 190K.
IF the OP is still considering this car, and wants to trust the mechanic, I would suggest he travel to see it BEFORE any money changes hands.. take the check book, it could be the one... but if it isn't walk away!
FWIW, depending on WHERE in NC it is, I would be more than happy to drive down and check it out... I like to drive, and always enjoy looking over a car for someone.. even if it is one they took a bath on buying!
ALSO, my $3200 951 currently has its motor out for a full rebuild, and in a year (15K miles or so) I replaced the entire suspension, the turbo, the brakes, fog lights, wheels and tires, resealed the hatch, polished her up, and enjoyed the hell out of driving her... not bad for a $3200 car IMHO, but would have hated to bite the $11K and end having to rebuild a motor!
Did the mechanic performing the PPI do a compression check, or a leak down test? How about removal of the hard pipes to check for oil in the inter-cooler (sign of bad rings in motor or a bad turbo) are there records indicating any major maintenance having been performed such as gearbox work, engine work, head work, or other major type work, if not, it will need done sooner or later... is the car bone stock, or has it been modified in any way?
I bought my 951 with 199K on the clock, paint needed help but other than dash cracks the interior was 99% brand new, sport seats, factory Koni Sport suspension, car drove well, and other than needing to be wet sanded and buffed had few blemishes.
I went in expecting new suspension, brakes, belts, water pump, and possibly turbo would be needed.. I had many of the parts on hand before I bought the car.
I paid $3200 for it.
For $11K I would expect even the mighty turbo S to be near showroom condition, considering I have worked on cars that have sold below the $11K mark that were in showroom, turnkey condition.
the flip side of that coin.. I have also seen 2 951s, locally, 1 of which I have worked on, that were basket cases, that were bought for over $11K.. but both had significant history, and many fewer miles than 190K.
IF the OP is still considering this car, and wants to trust the mechanic, I would suggest he travel to see it BEFORE any money changes hands.. take the check book, it could be the one... but if it isn't walk away!
FWIW, depending on WHERE in NC it is, I would be more than happy to drive down and check it out... I like to drive, and always enjoy looking over a car for someone.. even if it is one they took a bath on buying!
ALSO, my $3200 951 currently has its motor out for a full rebuild, and in a year (15K miles or so) I replaced the entire suspension, the turbo, the brakes, fog lights, wheels and tires, resealed the hatch, polished her up, and enjoyed the hell out of driving her... not bad for a $3200 car IMHO, but would have hated to bite the $11K and end having to rebuild a motor!
Did the mechanic performing the PPI do a compression check, or a leak down test? How about removal of the hard pipes to check for oil in the inter-cooler (sign of bad rings in motor or a bad turbo) are there records indicating any major maintenance having been performed such as gearbox work, engine work, head work, or other major type work, if not, it will need done sooner or later... is the car bone stock, or has it been modified in any way?
03-01-2011, 02:57 PM
#26
My suggestion is either spend the money to fly out and check out the car, or find a better example of a 951 that is more local to you.
03-01-2011, 03:02 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks JohnKoaWood very informative post
Yep, there was no way I was ever going to hand over money without going down there myself...but I was hoping to be 99% sure about any deal before I'd travel.
It's in Charlotte - thanks for the offer, I will definitely consider taking you up on that!
Most of this stuff has been checked by the mechanic. I know it needs tires, the suspension and brakes are fine, as regards the turbo, he said the engine 'works great' but he didn't specifically mention the turbo - I guess there is no way to tell how long it's got left?
He did a compression test: cylinders 1-4 scored 149, 148, 147 and 150 PSI respectively. Leak down test, no (but he did identify what he described as minor steering and coolant leaks)
I don't know about oil in the intercooler - he did say that he has a device (hydrometer?) that measures water content in any liquid and that it indicated the oil was OK but the brake fluid could do with being flushed as it has 2% water content.
It has an aftermarket panel between the headlights (I forget what you call that panel)- the owner tells me that was due to a minor parking lot incident, and the mechanic says there was no evidence of anything more serious - everything is straight and fits perfectly.
I would suggest he travel to see it BEFORE any money changes hands.. take the check book, it could be the one... but if it isn't walk away!
FWIW, depending on WHERE in NC it is, I would be more than happy to drive down and check it out...
ALSO, my $3200 951 currently has its motor out for a full rebuild, and in a year (15K miles or so) I replaced the entire suspension, the turbo, the brakes, fog lights, wheels and tires, resealed the hatch, polished her up, and enjoyed the hell out of driving her... not bad for a $3200 car IMHO, but would have hated to bite the $11K and end having to rebuild a motor!
Did the mechanic performing the PPI do a compression check, or a leak down test? How about removal of the hard pipes to check for oil in the inter-cooler (sign of bad rings in motor or a bad turbo) are there records indicating any major maintenance having been performed such as gearbox work, engine work, head work, or other major type work, if not, it will need done sooner or later... is the car bone stock, or has it been modified in any way?
I don't know about oil in the intercooler - he did say that he has a device (hydrometer?) that measures water content in any liquid and that it indicated the oil was OK but the brake fluid could do with being flushed as it has 2% water content.
It has an aftermarket panel between the headlights (I forget what you call that panel)- the owner tells me that was due to a minor parking lot incident, and the mechanic says there was no evidence of anything more serious - everything is straight and fits perfectly.
03-01-2011, 03:05 PM
#28
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Woah there, I wouldn't buy a car sight unseen
03-01-2011, 03:49 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
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These guys are right. Actually, if you cant do most of the work, a turbo will cost you. Start watching the 944 Turbo area on here and deals are popping up all the time.
FWIW, the deal on the S seems way overpriced, but the repairs are all pretty cheap DIY.
FWIW, the deal on the S seems way overpriced, but the repairs are all pretty cheap DIY.