likely dropping the hammer on a 951...few questions
02-24-2011, 12:35 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
likely dropping the hammer on a 951...few questions
Hey everyone,
After looking for a few years for a good 911SC I have decided that I would get more bang for my doller with a 944 or 951 as they are normally in much better shape and less expensive to maintain. This will be my first Porsche
So I found a local 1986 951 with 85k miles...mechanically it is in great shape...updated injectors...new timing belt..recent head gasket.. new stronger clutch..body is fair..no rust but a few nicks and dents.
I think everything has checked out perfect on this car. He is asking 7k...may be able to bring it down a bit.
Couple questions...the dash is cracked (as many are) how available and what are the costs for a dash...and how hard are they to replace?
Also the rear hatch foam wing is deteriorating...are they available and fairly easy to replace?
Probably have a few more questions...but for now just saying hi and if/when I get it I am sure I will be posting much more!
After looking for a few years for a good 911SC I have decided that I would get more bang for my doller with a 944 or 951 as they are normally in much better shape and less expensive to maintain. This will be my first Porsche
So I found a local 1986 951 with 85k miles...mechanically it is in great shape...updated injectors...new timing belt..recent head gasket.. new stronger clutch..body is fair..no rust but a few nicks and dents.
I think everything has checked out perfect on this car. He is asking 7k...may be able to bring it down a bit.
Couple questions...the dash is cracked (as many are) how available and what are the costs for a dash...and how hard are they to replace?
Also the rear hatch foam wing is deteriorating...are they available and fairly easy to replace?
Probably have a few more questions...but for now just saying hi and if/when I get it I am sure I will be posting much more!
02-24-2011, 12:44 AM
#2
dashes are not readily available but can be picked up used if you want to gamble with another one cracking. the best option is Classic 9 leather shop. they can repair and recover the dash in leather.
the rear spoilers are pretty easy to come by in great used condition. it is a very easy install.
i donk know how schooled you are on these cars, but there are a lot of things to look for. does the seller have repair records?
the rear spoilers are pretty easy to come by in great used condition. it is a very easy install.
i donk know how schooled you are on these cars, but there are a lot of things to look for. does the seller have repair records?
02-24-2011, 01:01 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I dont know a whole lot about the 951's....read a bunch on the 911sc as that is where i was originally heading...I use the PPI advice when looking at the 951...with the exception that the 951 is liquid cooled and has a turbo. He only has records of what he has done (head gasket/belts, clutch, injectors, new hoses)
02-24-2011, 01:17 AM
#4
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
this could be your last 951, unless you stop, and take a deep breath and start doing more research on the longivity of ALL the systems in the engine bay and the proclivity of failures, especially within the confines of an already challenged design, then add 25 years for all the other things that can go wrong... but this should not sway you from eventually enjoying 944 Turbo life to the fullest.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 02-25-2011 at 02:29 AM.
02-24-2011, 02:25 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
well...it doesnt seem there is much wrong with it at this time...turbo seems to opperate properly...compression and leak down were done..no oil leaks..trans shifts properly, ac working great, Suspension is tight, cv boots in good shape. The car was imported to Canada and the current owner does not have any previous records..just what he has done..he has had the car for a couple years..Started today fine (close to 0c) no smoke..So i am left with cosmetic things 
I am on a bit of a buget and looking at 911sc they are normally lacking attention...with no updates and leaking from everywhere...as well the body's are starting to show signs of wear and rust from neglect.
However if you have any other questions I should ask feel free to post
Thanks for the (different) welcome
I am on a bit of a buget and looking at 911sc they are normally lacking attention...with no updates and leaking from everywhere...as well the body's are starting to show signs of wear and rust from neglect.However if you have any other questions I should ask feel free to post
Thanks for the (different) welcome
02-24-2011, 07:41 AM
#6
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hi, welcome. Ignore the forum troll.
Are you going to be working on this car yourself? Do you have alternative transport for when it needs repair? 944 Turbos are a decent value if you do your own wrenching but if you have to take it to a shop they are very expensive to keep running. Shops rarely take the time to do all the right 'while you're at it' things and the labor involved in doing and re-doing work on the car is brutally expensive. That's even worse on an 86, with the one piece crossover.
-Joel.
Are you going to be working on this car yourself? Do you have alternative transport for when it needs repair? 944 Turbos are a decent value if you do your own wrenching but if you have to take it to a shop they are very expensive to keep running. Shops rarely take the time to do all the right 'while you're at it' things and the labor involved in doing and re-doing work on the car is brutally expensive. That's even worse on an 86, with the one piece crossover.
-Joel.
02-24-2011, 08:40 AM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Durham Region/GTA East, Canada
Posts: 1,380
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
If it says "Porsche" on the car, expect no difference in maint costs regardless of the model. This is with regards to 20+ year old Porsches. If you had your heart set on a 911sc, then wait and buy the sc. Don't get the 944 because you think it is cheaper.
Mine was fairly low mileage 136K and had a rebuilt motor, but I managed to spend $6k right off the hammer with the car to get it cert and reliable. Due to lack of maint records, I was forced to be prudent, and change/replace parts just to be safe. Understanding the $ factor, I should spent the extra up front $ and got a 911, as I still want one.
Don't get me wrong though, I am thoroughly enjoying driving the car, and it has surprised me with how well it handles.
Trending Topics
02-24-2011, 09:16 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
I would definitely heed the advice above....these cars can push your patience to the brink.
If you are doing the repair work yourself and have experience with foreign cars thats a good start.
If you are trying to pay someone competent to keep your car in running order deep pockets are required. The car may be 25 years old, but honestly the cost of most of the parts is really no different than the cost of parts for a new Boxster in my mind.
When talking to the owner I would be asking more of what "while you are there" parts were replaced rather than just what jobs were done. A timing belt job can be done various ways for example, the right way is to replace all the belts, rollers, seals, water pump, cooler seals if they have never been done, etc. I would get receipts.
With that said, these are fun cars and awesome to drive. Good Luck!
If you are doing the repair work yourself and have experience with foreign cars thats a good start.
If you are trying to pay someone competent to keep your car in running order deep pockets are required. The car may be 25 years old, but honestly the cost of most of the parts is really no different than the cost of parts for a new Boxster in my mind.
When talking to the owner I would be asking more of what "while you are there" parts were replaced rather than just what jobs were done. A timing belt job can be done various ways for example, the right way is to replace all the belts, rollers, seals, water pump, cooler seals if they have never been done, etc. I would get receipts.
With that said, these are fun cars and awesome to drive. Good Luck!
02-24-2011, 09:28 AM
#9
It certainly is a passion all in itself. i agree though with the desire for a 911. If that's what you want, that's what you should wait for.
I did my own research relentlessly and then took the plunge six months ago. I'm about $6000 into fixes/updates and not done yet. And if you don't tinker with the wrenches yourself, a high paying job will be a must, as a mechanic is gonna be TONS of cash. Mine wanted to charge me an extra 3 hours at 90/hr just because HE snapped a bolt off.
Needless to say he hasn't seen the car since and I've done all the rest myself. Be patient - there is no rush, but God what a great feeling doing the work yourself.
I did my own research relentlessly and then took the plunge six months ago. I'm about $6000 into fixes/updates and not done yet. And if you don't tinker with the wrenches yourself, a high paying job will be a must, as a mechanic is gonna be TONS of cash. Mine wanted to charge me an extra 3 hours at 90/hr just because HE snapped a bolt off.
Needless to say he hasn't seen the car since and I've done all the rest myself. Be patient - there is no rush, but God what a great feeling doing the work yourself.
02-24-2011, 10:23 AM
#10
Nordschleife Master
Hey everyone,
After looking for a few years for a good 911SC I have decided that I would get more bang for my doller with a 944 or 951 as they are normally in much better shape and less expensive to maintain. This will be my first Porsche
So I found a local 1986 951 with 85k miles...mechanically it is in great shape...updated injectors...new timing belt..recent head gasket.. new stronger clutch..body is fair..no rust but a few nicks and dents.
I think everything has checked out perfect on this car. He is asking 7k...may be able to bring it down a bit.
Couple questions...the dash is cracked (as many are) how available and what are the costs for a dash...and how hard are they to replace?
Also the rear hatch foam wing is deteriorating...are they available and fairly easy to replace?
Probably have a few more questions...but for now just saying hi and if/when I get it I am sure I will be posting much more!
After looking for a few years for a good 911SC I have decided that I would get more bang for my doller with a 944 or 951 as they are normally in much better shape and less expensive to maintain. This will be my first Porsche
So I found a local 1986 951 with 85k miles...mechanically it is in great shape...updated injectors...new timing belt..recent head gasket.. new stronger clutch..body is fair..no rust but a few nicks and dents.
I think everything has checked out perfect on this car. He is asking 7k...may be able to bring it down a bit.
Couple questions...the dash is cracked (as many are) how available and what are the costs for a dash...and how hard are they to replace?
Also the rear hatch foam wing is deteriorating...are they available and fairly easy to replace?
Probably have a few more questions...but for now just saying hi and if/when I get it I am sure I will be posting much more!
I dont know a whole lot about the 951's....read a bunch on the 911sc as that is where i was originally heading...I use the PPI advice when looking at the 951...with the exception that the 951 is liquid cooled and has a turbo. He only has records of what he has done (head gasket/belts, clutch, injectors, new hoses)
Find a shop familiar with waterpumpers, and have them perform a PPI, remember a few hundred $$ spent now can potentially save thousands down the road... if you arent fully comfortable witht he PPI, get a second one done elsewhere... no harm in being sure and getting a second oppinion!
well...it doesnt seem there is much wrong with it at this time...turbo seems to opperate properly...compression and leak down were done..no oil leaks..trans shifts properly, ac working great, Suspension is tight, cv boots in good shape. The car was imported to Canada and the current owner does not have any previous records..just what he has done..he has had the car for a couple years..Started today fine (close to 0c) no smoke..So i am left with cosmetic things I am on a bit of a buget and looking at 911sc they are normally lacking attention...with no updates and leaking from everywhere...as well the body's are starting to show signs of wear and rust from neglect.
However if you have any other questions I should ask feel free to post
Thanks for the (different) welcome
I am on a bit of a buget and looking at 911sc they are normally lacking attention...with no updates and leaking from everywhere...as well the body's are starting to show signs of wear and rust from neglect.However if you have any other questions I should ask feel free to post
Thanks for the (different) welcome
Hi, welcome. Ignore the forum troll.
Are you going to be working on this car yourself? Do you have alternative transport for when it needs repair? 944 Turbos are a decent value if you do your own wrenching but if you have to take it to a shop they are very expensive to keep running. Shops rarely take the time to do all the right 'while you're at it' things and the labor involved in doing and re-doing work on the car is brutally expensive. That's even worse on an 86, with the one piece crossover.
-Joel.
Are you going to be working on this car yourself? Do you have alternative transport for when it needs repair? 944 Turbos are a decent value if you do your own wrenching but if you have to take it to a shop they are very expensive to keep running. Shops rarely take the time to do all the right 'while you're at it' things and the labor involved in doing and re-doing work on the car is brutally expensive. That's even worse on an 86, with the one piece crossover.
-Joel.
02-24-2011, 11:33 AM
#11
Burning Brakes
As Everyone above has Said: This is a 25 year old car, Even a perfect example will need repairs this year...
To reiterate a key point: If you don't plan on fixing everything yourself (and I mean if your afraid to rebuild an engine in your spare time) then a mechanic will be making atleast $5k a year from you...
If your not afraid to perform all neccesary repairs by yourself... That's Great! This car could cost you less than $2k a year. Remember -In addtion to Parts, you will buy tools...
*Note* If you have never really worked on a car; punch a brick wall until your knuckles are bleeding.. Does it hurt?? When working on a car,,,, your hands will often feel and look like you've punched a brick wall... HA Ha
Lastly Make friends with others in your area and on Rennlist that have this car, these connections will be priceless.
p.s. Don't actually punch a brick wall, and good luck! I hope to see pictures of your new toy in the future!
To reiterate a key point: If you don't plan on fixing everything yourself (and I mean if your afraid to rebuild an engine in your spare time) then a mechanic will be making atleast $5k a year from you...
If your not afraid to perform all neccesary repairs by yourself... That's Great! This car could cost you less than $2k a year. Remember -In addtion to Parts, you will buy tools...
*Note* If you have never really worked on a car; punch a brick wall until your knuckles are bleeding.. Does it hurt?? When working on a car,,,, your hands will often feel and look like you've punched a brick wall... HA Ha
Lastly Make friends with others in your area and on Rennlist that have this car, these connections will be priceless.
p.s. Don't actually punch a brick wall, and good luck! I hope to see pictures of your new toy in the future!
02-24-2011, 11:41 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks for the advise guys!
I agree with what everyone is saying about buying on emotion. I have been searching for a Porsche for a long time..the last couple years driving and looking at quite a few SC. I have walked away from many cars I have fallen in love with...like women...have to know which ones you will learn to hate.
As much as I have wanted a SC I have looked at many different Porsches...a couple 914 (to scared of all the rust ) 944-944s-951 and 968, 911SC and carrara's and 928's. I am a fan of the Porsche design and appreciate each for what it is and the differences they all have. I am on a bit of a buget (due to my other passion of motorcycles) I want to spend less than 10K. Any SC in this range is neglected in many ways. I had broadened my search and discovered 944's are in much better shape doller for doller.
The owner of this 951 owns his own shop. And the shop is quite impressive specializing in european cars. The parking lot is full of Audi's B5 and newer..many S4's, BMW's and a few Porsche's. To me a look in the parking lot tell's a lot about the type of shop someone is running. He explained how he purchased the car (his second 951 he has owned) for a daily driver and track fun car but decided to sell the 951 as well as his 964 to purchase a 2010 993.
I worked for a GM dealer as a certified technician for 13 years..specializing on corvette's as well as electrical and Auto transmissions...also spent many years on the track with my old Yamaha R6, and repairing it as I went. I dont have to much experiance on Porsches but with my previous experiance will definatly help. My only problem would be that I do not have a hoist to work on a car so jack stands it is.
When inspecting the car is seemes to be well sorted..I went to see it on the weekend when he was reparing a leak around the ballance shaft cover and was able to see the car partially disassembled and on a hoist.
It would not be my daly driver more of a summer fun car to drive and do some work on when required.
I agree with what everyone is saying about buying on emotion. I have been searching for a Porsche for a long time..the last couple years driving and looking at quite a few SC. I have walked away from many cars I have fallen in love with...like women...have to know which ones you will learn to hate.
As much as I have wanted a SC I have looked at many different Porsches...a couple 914 (to scared of all the rust ) 944-944s-951 and 968, 911SC and carrara's and 928's. I am a fan of the Porsche design and appreciate each for what it is and the differences they all have. I am on a bit of a buget (due to my other passion of motorcycles) I want to spend less than 10K. Any SC in this range is neglected in many ways. I had broadened my search and discovered 944's are in much better shape doller for doller.
The owner of this 951 owns his own shop. And the shop is quite impressive specializing in european cars. The parking lot is full of Audi's B5 and newer..many S4's, BMW's and a few Porsche's. To me a look in the parking lot tell's a lot about the type of shop someone is running. He explained how he purchased the car (his second 951 he has owned) for a daily driver and track fun car but decided to sell the 951 as well as his 964 to purchase a 2010 993.
I worked for a GM dealer as a certified technician for 13 years..specializing on corvette's as well as electrical and Auto transmissions...also spent many years on the track with my old Yamaha R6, and repairing it as I went. I dont have to much experiance on Porsches but with my previous experiance will definatly help. My only problem would be that I do not have a hoist to work on a car so jack stands it is.
When inspecting the car is seemes to be well sorted..I went to see it on the weekend when he was reparing a leak around the ballance shaft cover and was able to see the car partially disassembled and on a hoist.
It would not be my daly driver more of a summer fun car to drive and do some work on when required.
02-24-2011, 11:52 AM
#13
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
first of all i love this guys attitude. he's obviously has an extremely open mind about what lies ahead.
once he clears a few hurdles he's just as likely to be driving one of the 2 or 3 best cars of the 1980s with ease...
but, some of you guys, maybe might try to go back to before you all knew how to take apart your 944s, replace clutches, belts and troubleshoot quirky electrical issues.... i want someone to tell me what the second 100 k miles of 944 Turbo ownership really looks like for any new P-car owner who ever plans on daily driving one.... the experience can and should go extremely well. but things can also quite easily go the other way, and you can pour out money like it's water. despite that these are semi-exotic cars, into their second 25 years of life, where did i say he couldn't pull it off or shouldn't get one.
sure i gave him a little bit of ribbing, but there was no harm intended. hearing what can easily be misread as a cynical point of view might cause him to really start digging and learn more about the cars, and this can only be a good thing. there's way too many people who cover up the complexities and costs just-as-often associated with ownership. some of you guys might be forgettng that real people work, tend to get married, have kids, take them to little league, occassionaly take wifey out on a saturday night, spend time at the hunting club, play golf.... having a 944 Turbo is not the same as buying a well kept Eclipse Turbo.
just automatically assuming everyone's gonna turn into some snap 944 tech overnight is extremely optimistic. the reality is closer to people getting divorced for owning these cars without doing some research and having a jolly bit of good luck to go along... he should approach 944 Turbo ownership from a more skeptical point of view and be extremely cynical first, about buying one that's already had a head gasket failure.
once he clears a few hurdles he's just as likely to be driving one of the 2 or 3 best cars of the 1980s with ease...
but, some of you guys, maybe might try to go back to before you all knew how to take apart your 944s, replace clutches, belts and troubleshoot quirky electrical issues.... i want someone to tell me what the second 100 k miles of 944 Turbo ownership really looks like for any new P-car owner who ever plans on daily driving one.... the experience can and should go extremely well. but things can also quite easily go the other way, and you can pour out money like it's water. despite that these are semi-exotic cars, into their second 25 years of life, where did i say he couldn't pull it off or shouldn't get one.
sure i gave him a little bit of ribbing, but there was no harm intended. hearing what can easily be misread as a cynical point of view might cause him to really start digging and learn more about the cars, and this can only be a good thing. there's way too many people who cover up the complexities and costs just-as-often associated with ownership. some of you guys might be forgettng that real people work, tend to get married, have kids, take them to little league, occassionaly take wifey out on a saturday night, spend time at the hunting club, play golf.... having a 944 Turbo is not the same as buying a well kept Eclipse Turbo.
just automatically assuming everyone's gonna turn into some snap 944 tech overnight is extremely optimistic. the reality is closer to people getting divorced for owning these cars without doing some research and having a jolly bit of good luck to go along... he should approach 944 Turbo ownership from a more skeptical point of view and be extremely cynical first, about buying one that's already had a head gasket failure.
02-24-2011, 11:56 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,045
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are wanting to learn and work on the car yourself DO IT. I got my S2 having never worked on a car before but with the intention of doing whatever I could myself. Yes I have spent many hours and quite a few dollars bloody hands etc. but I am having a great time at it. Finishing a DIY repair and then hopping in the car and enjoying the fruits of you labor is very rewarding.
02-24-2011, 12:03 PM
#15
Nordschleife Master
FWIW, I have removed and reinstalled almost every single part under both my 944s... using nothing more than jack-stands (engine hoist and floor jack included) but have never worked on either using a lift!
this includes but is not limited to:
Clutch
Engine removal
trans-axle removal
trans mount removal and installation
suspension on both cars
bushings
steering rack on both cars
torque tube removal
fuel tank removal
Jack stand might not be the most comfortable way to work on them, but there is nothing you cant do on jack-stands!
Havaing mechanical skils, some tools, and enough sense to ask someone who has been there and done that is more than enough equipment to get through teh most daunting tasks on these cars... they are after all just cars, not magical flying machines!
this includes but is not limited to:
Clutch
Engine removal
trans-axle removal
trans mount removal and installation
suspension on both cars
bushings
steering rack on both cars
torque tube removal
fuel tank removal
Jack stand might not be the most comfortable way to work on them, but there is nothing you cant do on jack-stands!
Havaing mechanical skils, some tools, and enough sense to ask someone who has been there and done that is more than enough equipment to get through teh most daunting tasks on these cars... they are after all just cars, not magical flying machines!