V2Rocket

because if youre going to swap pistons you may as well go for something higher than the 10.6:1 of the euro cars.

not to mention euro's had different DME programming, no O2 sensor and no catalyst. if you got a euro DME and pistons it might be worth it, 163hp is better than 143. but with even higher CR, higher octane fuel and some good tuning (mostly ignition) you could see some more but as joka said youd be limited by the head...

JohnKoaWood

Not to mention the cost of head work.. face it folks, these aren't being made anymore.. and when the market is dried up it is dried up..

I am having a head rebuilt, at a local well known shop.. JUST to deck the head, replace stem guides, and put it all back together.. will be over $400.

how much do you think it would be to have custom work done simply to increase the CR, when the ports are the same size they have always been.. custom isn't cheap.\\and no, it isn't as easy as just having the chamber welded to close it up.. dropping the top of the chamber will require the plug cavity to be reground.. not to mention taking it too far will obscure the valves, making the flow problems worse not better...

My point? these cars came about as good as they are going to get from the factory, and while SOME gains can be made, lets be real... how many here are even going to swap ignition setups to an MSD box and coil on their street car?

And FWIW, you can reprogram your own DME for any timing and fuel curve you want... yes there are gains to be had, but they are not track legal, so leaving it to the street users.. and there aren't many 944 street users willing to drop 1K to be able to remap their DME...

V2Rocket

ZR8ED

You are right on there. If you have to pay someone to do this, cheap it isn't.
These kinds of mods are not for the typical hacker. You can't just weld up a combustion chamber or just hog out ports and relieve valves etc. I don't want anyone to think they can just "go for it" except for the port matching and minor polishing. The rest needs to be done by experienced engine builders/racers. Most people would never attempt this, but it sure would be a lot of fun for a few "fanatics" If I had a free parts car laying around, I would do this just for fun and the learning experience.

944CS

Here is 10rwhp for $700

944CS

I'm currently working on a head/intake/cam package to work with the above

odurandina

LS3 with stock cam and headers yields about 455 hp and a sweet idle.

but now there's this;

http://www.jegs.com/p/GM-Performance...27485/10002/-1

480 hp... w/ harness = $9,316 shipped... add edelbrock ceramic headers $999.00 for 30 hp gain... total about $10,200 + source '90s camaro accessories = 500~510 hp at the flywheel.... not crazy about the rough idle that you'd see with this engine... but, i'm sure i could switch cam's with someone with a stock engine on the camaro forums after doing my top-speed run.

roman944

pfffffffffft

http://www.jegs.com/i/GM-Performance...ductId=1271011

FRporscheman

I wonder if today's cnc technology makes it feasible to make a new custom head for the 944, with hemi or pentroof and still sohc to keep it simple. Design it to use the same cam box and cam, same shape and everything, just improve the cc and use the largest intake valve possible. Really high compression with a big valve would be nice.

I'm sure it would be cheaper to pick up an S2 or 968 engine. But it's still fun to think about.

JohnKoaWood

Anything can be done, provided enough money.... there is no solution that money cant provide, or stupidity defeat!

pettybird

For the heck of it, how would you build a $25,000 944 8V NA engine? Let's say someone REALLY wanted one! Get stupid and add your ideas...

start with a 2.7 block/head and go 3.1+ liter
13:1 compression
performance coatings everywhere
ITB's
Halltech or other EMS
coil on plug setup
massive head porting
oversized titanium valves, Ti retainers, beehive springs
Darton sleeves
custom built long tube header
balance shaft delete?
lightened crank
titanium rods
one-off pistons w/all the tricks
dry sump
vacuum pump
custom cam
solid lifter conversion

you'll still run into a wall with the head, but how far along would this setup go?

V2Rocket

the 8v head will be the "wall you run in to" very quickly no matter how much work you have done to it. airflow through it is limited when the pistons are sucking air in. when air is being forced in though...

arash has a fun idea, im sure you could make something that could use the cam box and the lifters would push rocker arms that would actuate a single intake valve on one side and a single exhaust on the other side, although that would be so complex and expensive to machine and source parts you may as well find a factory 16v head

odurandina

Roman, the ls9 price is about the same as my entire swap budget including transmission mods.


Spencer, wouldn't any 30 thousand dollar, 4 cylinder build for the 944 include a 16 valve 3.0 turbo ?

the turbo guys do some sick, high-risk, high-reward engines.



.

V2Rocket

not necessarily. some people have different goals for their cars and the 8v/16v question comes into play based on those goals.

george d's car makes 530whp with an 8v head. and so much torque that he destroyed a 951 transmission. and i think his build cost MORE than 30k. built to last.

special tool did 600+whp with an 8v head...

nice thing on the 16v is that you can run lower boost and higher ignition timing to get similar power, which is easier on everything inside..

odurandina

the guy who was going to sell me the LS2 complete with all accessories and wiring harness, and 27 k miles for $4,850 has gone ahead and sold that engine to another buyer for $4,999. it was sad to see such a good engine go (that really is a good price for a 100 % complete engine).....

once making the determination that i needed more power than you'll get out of an LS2 near 4,000 rpm running a stock cam, i decided to wait and get an LS3. i'll stand a good chance of detonating my first transmission unless i drive the car very carefully. slip up even once and i might be installing my spare transmission..... in any event, i'll should have the money saved for my swap by the end of next month.