testing air-oil separator
03-21-2002, 06:49 PM
#1
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testing air-oil separator
If I take my intake manifold off, I should be able to blow through the air-oil separator down into the crankcase right? I'm still trying to diagnose why I have a pressurized crankcase blowing my oil-pan gasket out.
Also, there's a vacuum control valve with two ports on top under the #4 intake runner (one has a red ring around it). Looks to control some sort of heater function. Should I have the port with the red ring hooked up to a T coming off the intake-manifold (by KLR-pressure line)? Thanks -danno
Also, there's a vacuum control valve with two ports on top under the #4 intake runner (one has a red ring around it). Looks to control some sort of heater function. Should I have the port with the red ring hooked up to a T coming off the intake-manifold (by KLR-pressure line)? Thanks -danno
03-21-2002, 10:26 PM
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[quote] I should be able to blow through the air-oil separator down into the crankcase right? <hr></blockquote>
You should be able to, The air oil seperator is just a large empty container. The lid has a deflecter inside so that no oil can get sucked up and the nipple on the top has a smaller hole in it than the i.d. of the connecting hose. The hose should be connected to the turbo inlet, thus proving only vacuum.
[quote] there's a vacuum control valve with two ports on top under the #4 intake runner (one has a red ring around it). Looks to control some sort of heater function. <hr></blockquote>
It's actually a thermo-valve that opens when the water temp get's to a certain temperature. One line gets hooked up to the lower port on your throttle body the other goes to one of the valves located over by the test port on the drivers side.
Later,
Rob
You should be able to, The air oil seperator is just a large empty container. The lid has a deflecter inside so that no oil can get sucked up and the nipple on the top has a smaller hole in it than the i.d. of the connecting hose. The hose should be connected to the turbo inlet, thus proving only vacuum.
[quote] there's a vacuum control valve with two ports on top under the #4 intake runner (one has a red ring around it). Looks to control some sort of heater function. <hr></blockquote>
It's actually a thermo-valve that opens when the water temp get's to a certain temperature. One line gets hooked up to the lower port on your throttle body the other goes to one of the valves located over by the test port on the drivers side.
Later,
Rob
03-21-2002, 11:24 PM
#3
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"It's actually a thermo-valve that opens when the water temp get's to a certain temperature. One line gets hooked up to the lower port on your throttle body the other goes to one of the valves located over by the test port on the drivers side."
Ok, that sounds good. The upper line that goes to the other valve is already hooked up. So I need to hook up the other port to that fitting that comes off at 90-degrees at the bottom of the throttle body? What an awkward to place it. Oh well, I guess that's where you get a good vacuum, eh?
Anyway, I was just wondering if this control-valve could have had anything to do with the crankcase pressure, but it looks like a second independent unrelated issue. So I'll take off the intake tomorrow and try blowing into the air-oil separator. I suspect it's clogged somehow (I don't think I'll admit to the possibly stupid thing I did to clog it...).
Ok, that sounds good. The upper line that goes to the other valve is already hooked up. So I need to hook up the other port to that fitting that comes off at 90-degrees at the bottom of the throttle body? What an awkward to place it. Oh well, I guess that's where you get a good vacuum, eh?
Anyway, I was just wondering if this control-valve could have had anything to do with the crankcase pressure, but it looks like a second independent unrelated issue. So I'll take off the intake tomorrow and try blowing into the air-oil separator. I suspect it's clogged somehow (I don't think I'll admit to the possibly stupid thing I did to clog it...).
03-21-2002, 11:51 PM
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[quote] What an awkward to place it. Oh well, I guess that's where you get a good vacuum, eh? <hr></blockquote>
The line and associated valves are part of the actvated carbon canister system
It's been a while since I've looked at it, but IIRC, they take it off of that location because the port is on the intercooler side at closed throttle (no vacuum), and high vacuum after you open the throttle valve blade past the port. The valves over by the test port are tied in with the vent line coming from the fuel tank going to the charcoal canister. If you'll also notice, there is another line (about 1/4" i.d) from those valves that ties into the inlet side of your turbo. This is so that under the correct conditions, your sucking in the tank fumes instead of just venting through the canister.
Later,
Rob
The line and associated valves are part of the actvated carbon canister system
It's been a while since I've looked at it, but IIRC, they take it off of that location because the port is on the intercooler side at closed throttle (no vacuum), and high vacuum after you open the throttle valve blade past the port. The valves over by the test port are tied in with the vent line coming from the fuel tank going to the charcoal canister. If you'll also notice, there is another line (about 1/4" i.d) from those valves that ties into the inlet side of your turbo. This is so that under the correct conditions, your sucking in the tank fumes instead of just venting through the canister.
Later,
Rob
03-22-2002, 06:11 AM
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Since this thread has started to go OT I'll continue to push it in that direction...
This discussion has me thinking about all of the extra "stuff" on the cars that is emissions related. Did the Euro-spec cars have the evaporative emissions system installed, or is that just for U.S. cars thanks to the EPA?
Has anyone removed their evap. system on track-only cars? I'm not recommending this for environmental reasons (
), but it seems like a way to simplify things under the hood and save some weight too.
This discussion has me thinking about all of the extra "stuff" on the cars that is emissions related. Did the Euro-spec cars have the evaporative emissions system installed, or is that just for U.S. cars thanks to the EPA?
Has anyone removed their evap. system on track-only cars? I'm not recommending this for environmental reasons (
), but it seems like a way to simplify things under the hood and save some weight too.
03-22-2002, 11:10 AM
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[quote] Did the Euro-spec cars have the evaporative emissions system installed, or is that just for U.S. cars thanks to the EPA? <hr></blockquote>
My nephew's 85.5 euro has it installed, but has no cat or o2 sensor so I would image that it came from the factory with it.
[quote] Has anyone removed their evap. system on track-only cars? I'm not recommending this for environmental reasons ( ), but it seems like a way to simplify things under the hood and save some weight too. <hr></blockquote>
It can be removed, the charcoal canister can vent the tank vapors by itself. The system is setup so that while running, above idle, and above a certain water temp, the engine will suck in these vapors instead of venting them. On my car a couple of the valves over by the test port had leaking diaphrams and the thermo valve potting was shot.
Later,
Rob
My nephew's 85.5 euro has it installed, but has no cat or o2 sensor so I would image that it came from the factory with it.
[quote] Has anyone removed their evap. system on track-only cars? I'm not recommending this for environmental reasons ( ), but it seems like a way to simplify things under the hood and save some weight too. <hr></blockquote>
It can be removed, the charcoal canister can vent the tank vapors by itself. The system is setup so that while running, above idle, and above a certain water temp, the engine will suck in these vapors instead of venting them. On my car a couple of the valves over by the test port had leaking diaphrams and the thermo valve potting was shot.
Later,
Rob
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06-08-2002, 11:32 PM
#11
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"Why would an oil pan gasket blow out? How did you solve this Danno?"
I made the stupid mistake of using some crappy copper-silicone sealant on the pan gasket. It felt really slick on the gasket before I installed it (that was a clue). Then when everything was assembled, the silicone acted as a lubricant to allow crankcase pressure to push the gasket out. Once you get oil on the interface between the gasket and the pan, forget it! I won't mention that on my Supra, the oil-pan had an L-shaped lip on the outside edge that extended halfway up the gasket to prevent such sideways creep...
Anyway, I pulled the pan off and cleaned everything off really well and used Yamabond-4 this time. Problem solved!
I made the stupid mistake of using some crappy copper-silicone sealant on the pan gasket. It felt really slick on the gasket before I installed it (that was a clue). Then when everything was assembled, the silicone acted as a lubricant to allow crankcase pressure to push the gasket out. Once you get oil on the interface between the gasket and the pan, forget it! I won't mention that on my Supra, the oil-pan had an L-shaped lip on the outside edge that extended halfway up the gasket to prevent such sideways creep...
Anyway, I pulled the pan off and cleaned everything off really well and used Yamabond-4 this time. Problem solved!
06-08-2002, 11:34 PM
#12
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Ahmet, you want the diagram for the turbo engine..?
The issue about blowing out the oil pan gasket, was related to crankcase pressure, not fuel vapor, but if you need the diagram email me...
944t@bellsouth.net
The issue about blowing out the oil pan gasket, was related to crankcase pressure, not fuel vapor, but if you need the diagram email me...
944t@bellsouth.net
06-09-2002, 02:05 AM
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You've got mail!
I used RTV silicone on mine, but I feel like there has to be some serious pressure in the crankase to blow the gasket out, I mean it's ripped from it's metal rings... I'll try to post some pictures next week.
Thanks for the replies.
Ahmet
I used RTV silicone on mine, but I feel like there has to be some serious pressure in the crankase to blow the gasket out, I mean it's ripped from it's metal rings... I'll try to post some pictures next week.
Thanks for the replies.
Ahmet
06-09-2002, 02:58 AM
#14
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"Since this topic is going all over the place anyways, I was responding to Ahmet in an old thread you started around Feb. concerning crankcase pressure blowing out your oil pan gasket.
I'm aware from rereading the thread that you felt as though you'd used the wrong sealant, but are you quite sure the CC pressure wasn't already excessive a few months ago.....?
Maybe this problem of late was starting back then, with the rings just now letting go, and the CC pressure being high was a result, giving you a warning sign.. "
I'm pretty sure crankcase pressure was within normal specs when I did my rod-bearings months ago. My mistake was in using the silicone-sealant. This can be confirmed by having the problem pop up overnight. I doubt my rings or valve guides/seals can wear out that quickly. When I removed all of the silicone and used Yamabond-4 instead, the gasket-popping stopped.
I'm also pretty sure the PCV function of the air-oil separator hooked into the turbo inlet would vent any excessive pressure back around anyway.
Additionally, when I blew my rings this last time after the OTC, I DEFINITELY had some extreme blow-by and crankcase pressure. If I floored it, I could set up a James Bond style smokescreen that can completely blind 8-lanes of freeway traffic (people were turning on their lights behind me)! That pressure would blow enough oil from the crankcase through the turbo inlet that I would go through 3-quarts in less than 100-miles! However, the oil-pan gasket has not leaked a single drop!
Ahmet, I thought something might have been up with the evaporative-canister plumbing too. But it all checked out OK and had nothing to do with my oil-pan gasket blowing out... Sorry, you're gonna need to drop that pan again...
I'm aware from rereading the thread that you felt as though you'd used the wrong sealant, but are you quite sure the CC pressure wasn't already excessive a few months ago.....?
Maybe this problem of late was starting back then, with the rings just now letting go, and the CC pressure being high was a result, giving you a warning sign.. "
I'm pretty sure crankcase pressure was within normal specs when I did my rod-bearings months ago. My mistake was in using the silicone-sealant. This can be confirmed by having the problem pop up overnight. I doubt my rings or valve guides/seals can wear out that quickly. When I removed all of the silicone and used Yamabond-4 instead, the gasket-popping stopped.
I'm also pretty sure the PCV function of the air-oil separator hooked into the turbo inlet would vent any excessive pressure back around anyway.
Additionally, when I blew my rings this last time after the OTC, I DEFINITELY had some extreme blow-by and crankcase pressure. If I floored it, I could set up a James Bond style smokescreen that can completely blind 8-lanes of freeway traffic (people were turning on their lights behind me)! That pressure would blow enough oil from the crankcase through the turbo inlet that I would go through 3-quarts in less than 100-miles! However, the oil-pan gasket has not leaked a single drop!
Ahmet, I thought something might have been up with the evaporative-canister plumbing too. But it all checked out OK and had nothing to do with my oil-pan gasket blowing out... Sorry, you're gonna need to drop that pan again...
06-09-2002, 11:25 AM
#15
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Danno,
Yammabond 4 is great stuff. I did my rebuild using it instead of the supplied Loctite product. NO leaks.
I'll second your experience on blow by and the pan gasket. I had 2 mm ring gaps from the prvious incorrect rebuild, spelled >30% leakdown. Blew by lots of pressure but never wiped out the pan gasket.
Alan
Yammabond 4 is great stuff. I did my rebuild using it instead of the supplied Loctite product. NO leaks.
I'll second your experience on blow by and the pan gasket. I had 2 mm ring gaps from the prvious incorrect rebuild, spelled >30% leakdown. Blew by lots of pressure but never wiped out the pan gasket.
Alan