No spark or power to fuel pump
10-23-2002, 12:42 AM
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No spark or power to fuel pump
I just picked up a 1987 944s for my son and I to work on. Several relays and ignition parts were missing. I have replaced all but have no fire to the plugs or power to the fuel pump. My DME relay is new. My injectors click and I have power to the coil. I checked my fuel pump by running independent power to it. Does anyone have a suggestion of what to do or what to check?
10-23-2002, 01:08 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by SoCal Driver:
<strong>Did you check to see if the DME is there?
Otherwise check the fuses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
DME is thier and all fuses look good.
<strong>Did you check to see if the DME is there?
Otherwise check the fuses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
DME is thier and all fuses look good.
10-23-2002, 01:12 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Perry 951:
<strong>Does the car have a factory alarm?
Welcome to the forums.. by the way. Good to have you here.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do have a factory arlam. When I unplugged it, it went off. Could this be in the armed position? Unfortunatly, I don't have the key that works in that lock. The current position of the lock/switch is vertical. The car does crank, but no spark or power to the pump.
<strong>Does the car have a factory alarm?
Welcome to the forums.. by the way. Good to have you here.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do have a factory arlam. When I unplugged it, it went off. Could this be in the armed position? Unfortunatly, I don't have the key that works in that lock. The current position of the lock/switch is vertical. The car does crank, but no spark or power to the pump.
10-23-2002, 02:00 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by skk:
<strong>
I do have a factory arlam. When I unplugged it, it went off. Could this be in the armed position? Unfortunatly, I don't have the key that works in that lock. The current position of the lock/switch is vertical. The car does crank, but no spark or power to the pump.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I asked about the DME because I bought an 86 that had an engine fire and was told the DME was in it.
NOT!
Check for 12 volts at the coil with the key on.
If good the ignition switch is working.
Check for 10 to 12 volts at the injectors with the key on.
If not; DME relay part one.
If good check for spark and running fuel pump during cranking.
No spark with 12 volts to coil and injectors is either referance sensor or DME. DME takes coil to ground to cause HV spark. Injectors to ground to open.
If engine starts but quickly dies the speed sesnors is bad. Bad = not connected, to much gap or open unrepairable curcuit. Check fuel pump fuse.
Just curious did you check to see if the timing belt is good?
<strong>
I do have a factory arlam. When I unplugged it, it went off. Could this be in the armed position? Unfortunatly, I don't have the key that works in that lock. The current position of the lock/switch is vertical. The car does crank, but no spark or power to the pump.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I asked about the DME because I bought an 86 that had an engine fire and was told the DME was in it.
NOT!
Check for 12 volts at the coil with the key on.
If good the ignition switch is working.
Check for 10 to 12 volts at the injectors with the key on.
If not; DME relay part one.
If good check for spark and running fuel pump during cranking.
No spark with 12 volts to coil and injectors is either referance sensor or DME. DME takes coil to ground to cause HV spark. Injectors to ground to open.
If engine starts but quickly dies the speed sesnors is bad. Bad = not connected, to much gap or open unrepairable curcuit. Check fuel pump fuse.
Just curious did you check to see if the timing belt is good?
10-23-2002, 10:48 AM
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If the alarm is tripped, it cuts spark and fuel so the car cannot be stolen. As old age sets in, the control brain can get a little funky. There is a bypass solution for the later models, 85.5+, but I am not sure if it will work for yours.
Also, if you disconnect the brain, it will go bonkers. I think the key position is armed, I will check mine when I get home for you. If it is armed, it should go off when you opened the door, hood, or the rear hatch.
Let me dig up the bypass for the alarm and you can try that.
Also, if you disconnect the brain, it will go bonkers. I think the key position is armed, I will check mine when I get home for you. If it is armed, it should go off when you opened the door, hood, or the rear hatch.
Let me dig up the bypass for the alarm and you can try that.
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10-23-2002, 06:24 PM
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Found this.. but you still need to jump 2 terminals...
Under the passenger floor carpet (pull it up from the velcro near the firewall) is a plywood floor which is held by 4 screws.Then remove the metal bracket which holds the computer and the alarm. The alarm is a 2.5" x 4" black box with 2 plugs in it. One plug has about 10 or 12 wires going into it. The other plug has 2 wires. Pull the 2 wire plug and you should be fine.
And this:
To Remove alarm: You need to get behind the DME in the right hand footwell. The alarm is the black plastic box (slightly larger than a pack of smokes) with a large wiring harmess at one end. Remove the harness, and pull out the alarm. The plastic box opens up if you want to check for water damage.
To Bypass the Alarm: With the box removed, you will need to make yourself a jumper wire about 3 inches long with ends to fit the wiring harness - I think they are 1/4" female disconnects. You need to jump the ignition terminal to the DME hot wire on the harness. If I remember correctly, this is the black and the green wires (I could be wrong on that). Anyhow, it is the two wires at the bottom corners of the harness on the same side. One will be hot with the ignition on, and the other will be dead - there is a wiring diagram for this in the haynes manual, if you undestand those sorts of things. If you get it right, the car will fire right up and you can go on your way
Still searching for more... but with the lock in the vertical position, it is armed. Your alarm is acive. Now knowing that, you need to do a few things.
1. Get a new lock and key for it
2. Have a locksmith cut it open and make new keys
3. Disable the system to bypass the whole damn thing.
Hope all this helps!
Under the passenger floor carpet (pull it up from the velcro near the firewall) is a plywood floor which is held by 4 screws.Then remove the metal bracket which holds the computer and the alarm. The alarm is a 2.5" x 4" black box with 2 plugs in it. One plug has about 10 or 12 wires going into it. The other plug has 2 wires. Pull the 2 wire plug and you should be fine.
And this:
To Remove alarm: You need to get behind the DME in the right hand footwell. The alarm is the black plastic box (slightly larger than a pack of smokes) with a large wiring harmess at one end. Remove the harness, and pull out the alarm. The plastic box opens up if you want to check for water damage.
To Bypass the Alarm: With the box removed, you will need to make yourself a jumper wire about 3 inches long with ends to fit the wiring harness - I think they are 1/4" female disconnects. You need to jump the ignition terminal to the DME hot wire on the harness. If I remember correctly, this is the black and the green wires (I could be wrong on that). Anyhow, it is the two wires at the bottom corners of the harness on the same side. One will be hot with the ignition on, and the other will be dead - there is a wiring diagram for this in the haynes manual, if you undestand those sorts of things. If you get it right, the car will fire right up and you can go on your way
Still searching for more... but with the lock in the vertical position, it is armed. Your alarm is acive. Now knowing that, you need to do a few things.
1. Get a new lock and key for it
2. Have a locksmith cut it open and make new keys
3. Disable the system to bypass the whole damn thing.
Hope all this helps!
10-24-2002, 01:37 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by skk:
<strong>I just picked up a 1987 944s for my son and I to work on. Several relays and ignition parts were missing. I have replaced all but have no fire to the plugs or power to the fuel pump. My DME relay is new. My injectors click and I have power to the coil. I checked my fuel pump by running independent power to it. Does anyone have a suggestion of what to do or what to check?</strong><hr></blockquote>Takes me back to the early days when I just found my '84 944na. I still have the scars!
What does the tach do while you're cranking the engine? Does it reflect cranking speed (bouncing up off zero, a couple hundred RPM), or does it sit there like a dead thing? If it's a dead thing, you might find that one or both of the flywheel position sensors are missing, unplugged, damaged or misadjusted. These tell the DME how fast (or if) the engine is turning, and when it passes TDC. If the DME doesn't think the engine is turning (as evidenced by the dead tach), nothing else controlled by the DME will happen either (spark, fuel, etc.). These sensors are on top of the housing over the flywheel, and MUST be adjusted for the proper gap beween them and the flywheel in order to work.
My particular problem was they were misadjusted to the point that after the engine had run, been turned off and the engine compartment had "heat soaked" for a few minutes, the temperature rise caused the gap dimension to change just enough that there was "no start" until things had cooled down. This was usually about 15 minutes after I opened the hood and started messing with stuff... none of which helped but usually seemed to burn my hands in some way or another.
Good luck!
Dan
<strong>I just picked up a 1987 944s for my son and I to work on. Several relays and ignition parts were missing. I have replaced all but have no fire to the plugs or power to the fuel pump. My DME relay is new. My injectors click and I have power to the coil. I checked my fuel pump by running independent power to it. Does anyone have a suggestion of what to do or what to check?</strong><hr></blockquote>Takes me back to the early days when I just found my '84 944na. I still have the scars!
What does the tach do while you're cranking the engine? Does it reflect cranking speed (bouncing up off zero, a couple hundred RPM), or does it sit there like a dead thing? If it's a dead thing, you might find that one or both of the flywheel position sensors are missing, unplugged, damaged or misadjusted. These tell the DME how fast (or if) the engine is turning, and when it passes TDC. If the DME doesn't think the engine is turning (as evidenced by the dead tach), nothing else controlled by the DME will happen either (spark, fuel, etc.). These sensors are on top of the housing over the flywheel, and MUST be adjusted for the proper gap beween them and the flywheel in order to work.
My particular problem was they were misadjusted to the point that after the engine had run, been turned off and the engine compartment had "heat soaked" for a few minutes, the temperature rise caused the gap dimension to change just enough that there was "no start" until things had cooled down. This was usually about 15 minutes after I opened the hood and started messing with stuff... none of which helped but usually seemed to burn my hands in some way or another.
Good luck!
Dan
10-24-2002, 10:35 PM
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Have 11 volts to coil with both key on and when cranking, 11 volts at injectors. Power to fuel pump when cranking and tach bounces when cranking. Still no spark!
10-24-2002, 11:16 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by skk:
<strong>Have 11 volts to coil with both key on and when cranking, 11 volts at injectors. Power to fuel pump when cranking and tach bounces when cranking. Still no spark!</strong><hr></blockquote>
How did you check for spark? did you pull a plug out and lay it on the engine with the wire attached?
with the injectors and the coil hot and the fuel pump running during cranking the DME relay should be good.
This leads us to the reference and speed sensors. I don't know if you pulled the plugs on these to check them but in some cases where the car has been repeatedly diagnosed the plugs to these two sensors can be come reversed. Will never start then.
If you check using the spark plug on the engine with no spark start checking the HV wires from the coil to the dist. as I've seen this oxidize and pull out of the 90 degree fittings but still hang in the weather boots like it's good.
<strong>Have 11 volts to coil with both key on and when cranking, 11 volts at injectors. Power to fuel pump when cranking and tach bounces when cranking. Still no spark!</strong><hr></blockquote>
How did you check for spark? did you pull a plug out and lay it on the engine with the wire attached?
with the injectors and the coil hot and the fuel pump running during cranking the DME relay should be good.
This leads us to the reference and speed sensors. I don't know if you pulled the plugs on these to check them but in some cases where the car has been repeatedly diagnosed the plugs to these two sensors can be come reversed. Will never start then.
If you check using the spark plug on the engine with no spark start checking the HV wires from the coil to the dist. as I've seen this oxidize and pull out of the 90 degree fittings but still hang in the weather boots like it's good.