Advise on 944 possible purchase
10-20-2010, 11:44 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Advise on 944 possible purchase
Guys,
I have a guy near me who has an 87 944S up for sale cheap. He says he is the only owner of the car since new. It has been well maintained and serviced, and you can see that. The car supposedly has under 100k miles on it, and up until last year was garage kept. The pics of it he sent look very good.
He says he had to leave it outside last winter unprotected, and when he started it in the spring, he noticed that there was some white smoke being emitted at higher RPMs. Nothin at idle, or mid rpms, only at higher rpms. I am taking that to mean up around redline. He says it is probably just a retorque needed on the head, and this is the first he ever saw it.
I have a 986. Know very little about the 944s. Does this sound like a low risk deal or does the white smoke throw up a big red flag for you guys. The guy only wants a grand for the car.....and it looks to be in very good condition....this aside. I am well aware of what could cause white smoke in general...but do not specifically know the ins and outs on these particular engines......
Any knowledgable advise is appreciated.
I have a guy near me who has an 87 944S up for sale cheap. He says he is the only owner of the car since new. It has been well maintained and serviced, and you can see that. The car supposedly has under 100k miles on it, and up until last year was garage kept. The pics of it he sent look very good.
He says he had to leave it outside last winter unprotected, and when he started it in the spring, he noticed that there was some white smoke being emitted at higher RPMs. Nothin at idle, or mid rpms, only at higher rpms. I am taking that to mean up around redline. He says it is probably just a retorque needed on the head, and this is the first he ever saw it.
I have a 986. Know very little about the 944s. Does this sound like a low risk deal or does the white smoke throw up a big red flag for you guys. The guy only wants a grand for the car.....and it looks to be in very good condition....this aside. I am well aware of what could cause white smoke in general...but do not specifically know the ins and outs on these particular engines......
Any knowledgable advise is appreciated.
Last edited by First986NJ; 10-20-2010 at 12:02 PM.
10-20-2010, 11:56 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
What kind of milage does he have on the car? Also pics would help us determine possible value for you. Also Smoke could be a bunch of things but not sure what it means if it is only at hihg rpms. Anyone else ahve any ideas?
10-20-2010, 12:05 PM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
Under 100k miles he says. He is an older guy and seems very genuine when you talk to him. I'll see if I can upload the pics he sent, but I would put the car's body condition, visually, based on them at maybe 8 on a 1-10 scale. Interior maybe between 7 and 8.
10-20-2010, 12:05 PM
#4
Pro
Yeah we definitely need some pictures. Sounds like a great deal, but yeah how much mileage we talking? And yeah white smoke could mean any number of things, burning antifreeze? condensation in the valves? But only at higher rpm makes things interesting. If I had some extra money sitting around right now I'd jump on it myself and fix it up, $1k for a well maintained, one owner 944S sounds like a steal.
10-20-2010, 01:48 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
Yea, I'm incline to think the same....just wanted to find out if they are known for this or anything. Worst case is it is a cyllinder crack and an engine or rebuild is needed.....any ideas on cost for a used long block or a rebuild ?
I know it sounds like a steal......but that is what is making me ask some questions first....my daddy always said that if it sounds too good to be true....it more often than not - is........what is that car worth potentially....5 or 6 times what he wants ?
I know it sounds like a steal......but that is what is making me ask some questions first....my daddy always said that if it sounds too good to be true....it more often than not - is........what is that car worth potentially....5 or 6 times what he wants ?
10-20-2010, 02:04 PM
#7
Nordschleife Master
Yea, I'm incline to think the same....just wanted to find out if they are known for this or anything. Worst case is it is a cyllinder crack and an engine or rebuild is needed.....any ideas on cost for a used long block or a rebuild ?
I know it sounds like a steal......but that is what is making me ask some questions first....my daddy always said that if it sounds too good to be true....it more often than not - is........what is that car worth potentially....5 or 6 times what he wants ?
I know it sounds like a steal......but that is what is making me ask some questions first....my daddy always said that if it sounds too good to be true....it more often than not - is........what is that car worth potentially....5 or 6 times what he wants ?
Worst case scenario you part the car out, get your money out of it, and scrap the rest...
More $$ if it has desirable options, but basic late 944, sure 1K no problem... 3-5 K running and ready to drive away.. If it were to have a LSD transmission, there is 1K alone...
Used 2.5L N/A motor $500, Used 3L with DME ready to go in.. $2500 - 3K...
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10-20-2010, 02:08 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
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He says it is probably just a retorque needed on the head
$3000 for poor condition turbo would be a much better deal (in my unworthy opinion). Bruce
10-20-2010, 04:56 PM
#9
Pro
Yeah that's the thing. 9 times out of 10 if something sounds too good to be true, its too good to be true. But John is right, that car is worth more than $1,000 in parts alone. Honestly though, either way I think its a good price, whether you end up parting it out or if you end up fixing it up and having a great 944. Any more info like options codes or pictures?
10-20-2010, 05:18 PM
#10
Drifting
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Does the car have any desirable options? my recollection is that if there is headwork needed, 16Vs are NOT cheap. Why would the head need to be "retorqued"? Has the clutch been replaced? How old are the shocks? Brakes? Did it sit uncovered for a year or covered?
How will you be using the car? making a track beast? daily driver? winter beater?
For $1K it might be worth the fun if you have the space and time/willingness to learn. If you need a shop to diagnose and repair, well, I imagine local indy's are in the $100/hr rate in north jersey.. so repairs can add up quick.
How will you be using the car? making a track beast? daily driver? winter beater?
For $1K it might be worth the fun if you have the space and time/willingness to learn. If you need a shop to diagnose and repair, well, I imagine local indy's are in the $100/hr rate in north jersey.. so repairs can add up quick.
10-20-2010, 07:01 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
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I've rebuilt two S engines now - and yes the heads are unobtanium. Although, If there was a 5L 928 that was 32V - it should have this head on the passengers bank. Still basically unobtainable.
The white smoke you're seeing could be a blown headgasket. Not that big of a deal in my book, but to have a shop do it will be a couple thousand and it's doubtful they will re-time the cams correctly which means the engine won't run quite like the original. The other thing the white smoke could be is simply an injection issue - bad sensor somewhere, or - since it's at high RPM's - valve guides.
Why would he let it go so cheap? Because he knows something you don't! Have a good mechanic look it over first - and then go for it - if a wind out S car is what you want. I would quickly replace the transmission with one from a regular 8V 944 - it has lower gears and you will be much more pleased with 16valve performance.
A really nice single owner 944S should be worth 6K. The N/A's under 6K - with the nicest usually around 5K - and the nice turbo's 7K+ up to some outrageous values that they are absolutely not worth no matter how much Lindsey Racing crud they've got on em.
Short blocks are identical to the 8V 944 so a dime a dozen and cheap - The head is the unique part - and it is not expensive to work on it - it's a typical 16valve head - but its one of a kind for the 87-88 cars.
The white smoke you're seeing could be a blown headgasket. Not that big of a deal in my book, but to have a shop do it will be a couple thousand and it's doubtful they will re-time the cams correctly which means the engine won't run quite like the original. The other thing the white smoke could be is simply an injection issue - bad sensor somewhere, or - since it's at high RPM's - valve guides.
Why would he let it go so cheap? Because he knows something you don't! Have a good mechanic look it over first - and then go for it - if a wind out S car is what you want. I would quickly replace the transmission with one from a regular 8V 944 - it has lower gears and you will be much more pleased with 16valve performance.
A really nice single owner 944S should be worth 6K. The N/A's under 6K - with the nicest usually around 5K - and the nice turbo's 7K+ up to some outrageous values that they are absolutely not worth no matter how much Lindsey Racing crud they've got on em.
Short blocks are identical to the 8V 944 so a dime a dozen and cheap - The head is the unique part - and it is not expensive to work on it - it's a typical 16valve head - but its one of a kind for the 87-88 cars.
10-20-2010, 07:31 PM
#13
Do a good ppi then decide.
Then add it up - might quickly be a $6K S after all. Might need, say:
$2K Clutch
$1K cat back (pricey on the S)
$1K T belt and chain tensioner
$1K AC
brakes
motor mounts
shocks
tires
That said, I really do enjoy my S, so could still be worthwhile, especially if you like doing the work.
Then add it up - might quickly be a $6K S after all. Might need, say:
$2K Clutch
$1K cat back (pricey on the S)
$1K T belt and chain tensioner
$1K AC
brakes
motor mounts
shocks
tires
That said, I really do enjoy my S, so could still be worthwhile, especially if you like doing the work.
10-20-2010, 07:37 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Do a good ppi then decide.
Then add it up - might quickly be a $6K S after all. Might need, say:
$2K Clutch
$1K cat back (pricey on the S)
$1K T belt and chain tensioner
$1K AC
brakes
motor mounts
shocks
tires
That said, I really do enjoy my S, so could still be worthwhile, especially if you like doing the work.
Then add it up - might quickly be a $6K S after all. Might need, say:
$2K Clutch
$1K cat back (pricey on the S)
$1K T belt and chain tensioner
$1K AC
brakes
motor mounts
shocks
tires
That said, I really do enjoy my S, so could still be worthwhile, especially if you like doing the work.