Suspension Lowering
10-08-2010, 07:51 PM
#31
Instructor
You need a balanced setup front and rear. 250lb springs with stock t-bars is not gonna handle well.
10-08-2010, 08:21 PM
#32
Three Wheelin'
Anyway, the OP is trying to figure out who to believe. If he is willing to try removing the spacers, he only has to believe his own results. My opinion is only worth the paper its written on
Some great comments here though, thanks all!
Great sunny day here in Napier, time for a drive...
Mike
10-09-2010, 03:50 PM
#35
Mikey is correct, experience is very important. I have a 1989 944s2 stock motor and trans, 968 cup sway bars, 968 caster blocks, Koni yellow dampers, adjustable spring perches in front, 200# springs and stock torsion bars. Using the ecentrics and the adjustable perches, I lowered the car almost 7/8".
In my opinion the ride is minimally stiffer than stock and the handling is greatly improved. I do not race, however with this setup I am able to turn very respectable lap times at all the tracks I go to.
Severian, In my opinion if you want to lower your car do it. Lower the rear with the ecentrics, remove the front spacers and try it. If you don't like either the ride, handling or looks you can change it. The adjustable front spring perch kits are a great way to raise or lower the front and the torsion bars can always be re-indexed to gain additional lowering. None of the changes are permenant. You can always return the car to stock height.
Try it see what your experience is.
In my opinion the ride is minimally stiffer than stock and the handling is greatly improved. I do not race, however with this setup I am able to turn very respectable lap times at all the tracks I go to.
Severian, In my opinion if you want to lower your car do it. Lower the rear with the ecentrics, remove the front spacers and try it. If you don't like either the ride, handling or looks you can change it. The adjustable front spring perch kits are a great way to raise or lower the front and the torsion bars can always be re-indexed to gain additional lowering. None of the changes are permenant. You can always return the car to stock height.
Try it see what your experience is.
10-11-2010, 03:06 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I appreciate everyone's input and as a result I plan to move forward with removing the spacer from the from the springs and lower the front by 1 1/4".
I am still uncertain about lowering the rear because I maybe limited to 7/8" by adjusting the ecentrics.
If lowering the front by 1 1/4" and the rear by 7/8" is acceptable then I'm fine, but I was under the impression, and this maybe in error, that to maintain the cars balance or handling the front and rear should be lowered by the same amount.
Could someone comment on this preconceived notion?
I would appreciate the clarification.
Thanks again...
I am still uncertain about lowering the rear because I maybe limited to 7/8" by adjusting the ecentrics.
If lowering the front by 1 1/4" and the rear by 7/8" is acceptable then I'm fine, but I was under the impression, and this maybe in error, that to maintain the cars balance or handling the front and rear should be lowered by the same amount.
Could someone comment on this preconceived notion?
I would appreciate the clarification.
Thanks again...
10-11-2010, 04:30 PM
#37
Race Director
Rear end high by 3/8 is not idea in most cases. The cars run best with level ride height front to rear. However you have stiffer front springs. So raising the rear relative to the front will create oversteeer. However since you have understeer with the springs it will balance out somewhat. You won't really know until you do it.
When autocrossing stock 83 944 on 225's front and rear I would remove the spare tire or add gas to balance the car. Worked suprisingly well given the soft springs. I could make the car neutral or very loose just by adjusting the weight in the rear. I could never tell on street, but I could tell tossing the car around the cones.
When autocrossing stock 83 944 on 225's front and rear I would remove the spare tire or add gas to balance the car. Worked suprisingly well given the soft springs. I could make the car neutral or very loose just by adjusting the weight in the rear. I could never tell on street, but I could tell tossing the car around the cones.
10-11-2010, 05:25 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
On a more general note, here's a fascinating article that suggests we should not take "common knowledge" for granted! http://picasaweb.google.com/diysport...y=4S-N7L1qfTA#
Anyone interested in a thorough discourse on suspension design might want to check out "the Milliken":
http://www.amazon.com/Race-Car-Vehic.../dp/1560915269
Cheers,
Mike
Anyone interested in a thorough discourse on suspension design might want to check out "the Milliken":
http://www.amazon.com/Race-Car-Vehic.../dp/1560915269
Cheers,
Mike
10-11-2010, 05:55 PM
#39
Nordschleife Master
Racecar vehicle dynamics by Milliken is so much more information than 99.99% of people need or can digest... 
The argument on the affects of lowering a car can only be answered by knowing the tire's sensitivity to camber and load. Without that, we are just guessing.
None of us here have that tire data (that I know of), so we are left to work with experience. M758 and a several others have that experience.
Mike, I'm sorry but you kind of lost credibility as an expert when you mentioned 400# front springs with a stock rear torsion bar handling OK. Camber, tire pressures, etc are for tweaking ... not fixing grossly mismatched springrates.
The argument on the affects of lowering a car can only be answered by knowing the tire's sensitivity to camber and load. Without that, we are just guessing.
None of us here have that tire data (that I know of), so we are left to work with experience. M758 and a several others have that experience.
Mike, I'm sorry but you kind of lost credibility as an expert when you mentioned 400# front springs with a stock rear torsion bar handling OK. Camber, tire pressures, etc are for tweaking ... not fixing grossly mismatched springrates.
10-11-2010, 08:08 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
mhr,
The write up on Weltmieser's website indicates the 200 lb springs lowers the front by 1 1/4" and I'm assuming the coil spring spacers adjust for that and brings the height back to stock.
But I could be wrong, it's been known to happen.
http://www.weltmeister.com/ProductDe...?productID=399
For what it's worth, I'm not intending to race this 944 other that on the streets of LA, but I am interested in improving the handling and looks of the car.
The write up on Weltmieser's website indicates the 200 lb springs lowers the front by 1 1/4" and I'm assuming the coil spring spacers adjust for that and brings the height back to stock.
But I could be wrong, it's been known to happen.
http://www.weltmeister.com/ProductDe...?productID=399
For what it's worth, I'm not intending to race this 944 other that on the streets of LA, but I am interested in improving the handling and looks of the car.
10-11-2010, 08:15 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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These are the only spacers I have found:
http://www.paragon-products.com/Welt...elt_cs-900.htm
I am actually have the 200 lb springs and want to get the spacers as to not alter the ride hight very much.
http://www.paragon-products.com/Welt...elt_cs-900.htm
I am actually have the 200 lb springs and want to get the spacers as to not alter the ride hight very much.
