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billstein vw koni (both can be used with Paragon coil kit?)

 
Old 09-29-2010, 09:34 PM
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roman944
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Default billstein vw koni (both can be used with Paragon coil kit?)

I noticed that my car has this "creak" when going over big bumps (I try to avoid, but something like rail road tracks)

it's not bad or really loud yet

so I got home, pushed on the rear - and it bounced fine

pushed on the front bumper/pads and a creak came from front right (passengers side) only

so my guess is that my front, and probably rear, shocks are on their way out

I also have a tear in my tie rod boot, so my plan was to get new tie rod ends (probably Renbay kit), new tie rods, new shocks in front and rear, and a 250# spring kit in the front, and maybe camber plates

car is going to be autocrossed a lot next season on, so my questions:

1) with Paragon kit - its not Koni-specific?
2) do I gain anything or loose anything by going with Billstein HD's instead of Koni's?
3) who has the best deal, or where can I find - manual tie rods?
4) ball join kits - probably would go with a Rennbay kit - Track/Perfomance would be just as good for the street? the years they say is 1985.5-1992, what about early cars?

This is to get me started, I'd collect parts and M030 sways over winter and get it all installed for spring - so I only do alignment once
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:12 PM
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Justin S2
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Sunset Porsche in Oregon is the best place to get early/late offset manual steering tie rods (about $50 less then paragon sells them for.) Plus they only sell OEM parts.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:12 AM
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83 944
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i prefer bilstein HDs over koni and they are cheaper. and the bilstein HD inserts are easy to build on your stock strut. and the 250# lowering springs are great! no doubt. i dont think you need camber plates. the car wont be slammed with the springs and you can adjust the camber with the essentric bolt on the strut.

i dont know anything about the rennbay stuff. but all new ball joint and tie rods will really stiffin your steering up and feel amazing!

also try this place called Partsgeek.com i buy from they have bilstein HDs shocks and struts up to 30 bucks cheaper than anywhere else! and they have many more. so check them out for sure.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:26 AM
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camber plates for when I go lower, but yeah, no point in it right now

thanks!
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:21 AM
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can the HD bilsteins strut inserts up front be used with koni sports rear?
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:38 AM
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yeah you can but its good to keep them matched. nothing harmful
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:35 PM
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For early cars you can buy ball joints from anywhere. I would recommend if they have never been changed before that you just get new control arms and balljoinst from somewhere and have them assemble them so you can just bolt them up and go.

My semi-cheap suspension resto on my 924S was this. Early Stuff BTW.

KYB Strut inserts up front /200LB Weltmeister Springs Lowered 1.25" Inch
KYB Rear Shocks/ Lowered the rear 1" using the ride height bolts.
Front control arms refreshend with all new bushings, and balljoints(Had to drill out rivets was a pain the ***)
Replaced any other suspension bushings that looked bad.

Overall it was like a $500 job said and done. It was a huge improvement and kept the stock balance of the car I think. Could push the car so much farther into a corner. I will most likely go with that setup on my 951 too.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:44 PM
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Bilsteins (Normal Shocks and PSS9/10 Coilovers) all suffer the same problem. They both suffer from having a gas charge that is to high. It causes them to be bouncy and unsettled I have seen numerous cars with H&R springs/Koni shocks go to a PSS9 Coilover and lose significant time on the racetrack not to mention have a harsher ride.
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:35 PM
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I've got a new set of early ball joints that I purchased for my old car...you can have them CHEAP.
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishey View Post
Bilsteins (Normal Shocks and PSS9/10 Coilovers) all suffer the same problem. They both suffer from having a gas charge that is to high. It causes them to be bouncy and unsettled I have seen numerous cars with H&R springs/Koni shocks go to a PSS9 Coilover and lose significant time on the racetrack not to mention have a harsher ride.
what about HD's? that's what I would be going with

also I agree that it would be a better idea to keep the shocks matched
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by roman944 View Post
what about HD's? that's what I would be going with

also I agree that it would be a better idea to keep the shocks matched
Yes, I would include the HD's into this.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:37 PM
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any feedback from people that used Koni's and Billsteins or switched form one to the other?

kinda sucks, Paragon had a nice sale on all Koni's, they always do around Spring time
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:32 AM
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In the back, it's a really nice cheap mod to get rid of the Bo-gees. I just replaced my 30k miles original ones with a set of Koni's and the difference is just remarkable. Such an improvement. My past experience made me really like Bilsteins on a 951. Reliable and inexpensive.

Of course the most tangible benefit in a Koni vs the Bilstein is the adjust ability. Not that I've ever set up a Koni not full hard in the back (1 turn), but softening the fronts for the street is really nice.
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:37 AM
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well that's kind of the thing, I doubt I'd be adjusting them at all, so if Billsteins are just as stiff or stiffer then Koni's - no problem

if not, Koni's it is

though Billsteins are a lot cheaper (almost $50 cheaper per shock) - so are Koni's really worth the extra $200?
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Old 10-02-2010, 06:46 AM
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I prefer Bilsteins. The HD's for the back are great. I ran them, w/ Koni inserts up front, before going to the (Bilstein Motorsport based) H&R RSS coilover kit. ANY new shock will be better than worn shocks.

Have a look at my previous posts for Bilstein cross-reference.

Agree with the other posts - fresh ball joints are essential.

FWIW, here's my advice:
Go to the 968 caster blocks if you can. Leave strut mounts until last. Don't lower the car at the front if you can help it - it ruins the geometry and you'll ride the bumpstops too much. Bilsteins like stiffer springs, softer bars and lower tyre pressures than Konis. Go to stiffer springs BEFORE going to stiffer sway bars. Ride height adjustment (affects roll centre height) is very useful for tuning handling.

For your application, I would go for the Koni inserts up front with the coilover kit, and Bilstein HD's at the back. The Bilsteins can be easily converted to a helper spring arrangement if required, although heavier torsion bars are probably easier.
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