Knock and Timing Advance Monitor ?
11-06-2002, 08:09 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Knock and Timing Advance Monitor ?
Does anyone know a good source for a knock and timing advance display. This would be awesome information as I tune my new Aquamist system.
<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
As for timing, hmmm.... we'd have to tap into the DME somehow and extract that info....
11-06-2002, 08:26 PM
#3
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danno, is this the link electrosystems unit? will it read from the stock knock sensor while it is still connected to the klr?
it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to build a circuit to measure and display the difference between the pulse from the ref mark sensor and the next spark...
it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to build a circuit to measure and display the difference between the pulse from the ref mark sensor and the next spark...
11-07-2002, 07:29 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
When I get it installed, I will take some pictures to show you where I located the equipment. Overall, install shouldn't be too bad except that the wiring and programming directions stink. I have e-mailed the company to get some help. I did get the pump working with the jet off the car and I was quite impressed with the fine coooooolll mist that was coming out. Very exciting.
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11-07-2002, 08:04 PM
#8
Race Director
"is this the link electrosystems unit?
"How accurate is the knock sensor. What does it look like? How much?
Yup, you can see it here: <a href="http://www.gururacing.net/LambdaKnockLink.html" target="_blank">http://www.gururacing.net/LambdaKnockLink.html</a>
"will it read from the stock knock sensor while it is still connected to the klr?"
I comes with its own knock-sensor. You can mount that additional knock sensor on the head near the original one. The hole that mounts the idle-stabilizer bracket works great.
"it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to build a circuit to measure and display the difference between the pulse from the ref mark sensor and the next spark...
Hmmm, well you can tap into the reference sensor and get a trigger. So you would know when 56.84-degrees BTDC occurs. Then you can count teeth on the speed-sensor for 2.72-degrees of resolution. If you count both the top and bottom of the waveform, you can get down to 1.36-degrees.
Let's say you have counter that's reset by the ref.-mark. Then it counts teeth, subtracts 2.72-degrees from 56.84 for each tooth that goes by. When you send the coil being dumped, you look up what value is in the counter. However, that's still not accurate enough.
From our chip-mapping, we've found a 'valley' in the upper-RPMs where ignition timing can't be advanced beyond a certain point. By keeping this valley fixed, we can actually advance ignition around it (above and below this RPM x load spot) by 0.34-1.02 degrees with noticeable increases in power. However, this adjustment falls within the resolution of a single tooth on the flywheel, so you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.
"Do the stand alone engine management systems display timing ?
Some do, some don't. Actual live timing displays aren't that useful anyway since they're changing so quickly. Timing can change from 10-degrees to 48-degrees and back again in fractions of a second. Tuning timing is useful with a dyno-chart so you can match up the RPM where you noticed knocking, with what the power-curves look like (ragged with knocking). Then having access to the 3D ignition maps allows you to adjust the exact point you want to dial out. Adjusting overall ignition timing, like a master retard setting is clumsy because you're sacrificing your entire power-curve to reduce knock that may only be occuring from 4000-4500rpm.
"How accurate is the knock sensor. What does it look like? How much?
Yup, you can see it here: <a href="http://www.gururacing.net/LambdaKnockLink.html" target="_blank">http://www.gururacing.net/LambdaKnockLink.html</a>
"will it read from the stock knock sensor while it is still connected to the klr?"
I comes with its own knock-sensor. You can mount that additional knock sensor on the head near the original one. The hole that mounts the idle-stabilizer bracket works great.
"it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to build a circuit to measure and display the difference between the pulse from the ref mark sensor and the next spark...
Hmmm, well you can tap into the reference sensor and get a trigger. So you would know when 56.84-degrees BTDC occurs. Then you can count teeth on the speed-sensor for 2.72-degrees of resolution. If you count both the top and bottom of the waveform, you can get down to 1.36-degrees.
Let's say you have counter that's reset by the ref.-mark. Then it counts teeth, subtracts 2.72-degrees from 56.84 for each tooth that goes by. When you send the coil being dumped, you look up what value is in the counter. However, that's still not accurate enough.
From our chip-mapping, we've found a 'valley' in the upper-RPMs where ignition timing can't be advanced beyond a certain point. By keeping this valley fixed, we can actually advance ignition around it (above and below this RPM x load spot) by 0.34-1.02 degrees with noticeable increases in power. However, this adjustment falls within the resolution of a single tooth on the flywheel, so you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.
"Do the stand alone engine management systems display timing ?
Some do, some don't. Actual live timing displays aren't that useful anyway since they're changing so quickly. Timing can change from 10-degrees to 48-degrees and back again in fractions of a second. Tuning timing is useful with a dyno-chart so you can match up the RPM where you noticed knocking, with what the power-curves look like (ragged with knocking). Then having access to the 3D ignition maps allows you to adjust the exact point you want to dial out. Adjusting overall ignition timing, like a master retard setting is clumsy because you're sacrificing your entire power-curve to reduce knock that may only be occuring from 4000-4500rpm.
11-08-2002, 12:10 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
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This a bit off the wall. what about adding a 3rd sensor that only detected plastic. they exist. then plastic pegs screwed into the flywheel at the designated positions that were needed to advance the timing at any speed. You would get a definate read at any rpms.. I am probably out of line here. but it seems that another reference point is needed that the metal can bypass. and give reference points needed later on in the RPM range..