View Poll Results: street combo; de-stroked LS7 388 c.i. vs LS3 376 c.i.; which would you run ?
LS3 376 c.i. (Crate Engine Depot); $7,300 (see top of page 4)...
27
60.00%
LS7 block w/ ls3 crank @ 388 c.i., LS3 heads/intake LS7 cam; $9,900.
18
40.00%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll
LS1 swap/parts/LSD transmissions...
03-06-2012, 05:17 PM
#46
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My car makes 373rwhp and about the same torque, runs on gas I buy at any gas station and didn't break once all last race season. Came in 2nd in NASA TTA because I ran my RA1's a little too long, otherwise I would've taken 1st...
03-06-2012, 06:38 PM
#47
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Doc,
what about one of those or Tyrannosaurus rex setups from Texas Speed....
or this;
POLL;
i've narrowed my engine selection down to 2 final choices that mimic GM production engines w/ baby smooth idle....
please help me decide by voting for your choice below....
Option #1. LS3 376 c.i. crate - (Crate Engine Depot); $6,204
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS3-...70-P10590.aspx
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes (for 944/968) $1,100
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; about $7,300
result; about 445~450 hp at the crank and w/ very friendly street manners.
option # 2 is the fifth setup mentioned in post #59 below;
Option #5. LS7 block w/ ls3 crank @ 388 c.i. w/ LS3 heads/intake, LS7 cam
virgin LS7 short block w/ 4.125" siamese-bore cylinders, LS3 crank w/ 3.62" stroke, forged rods - Scoggin Dickey; $5,800
http://sdparts.com
from parts bin, add fully assembled GM LS3 rect port heads, H20 pump, and all other parts to finish crate; (source LS3 intake, fuel rail, and manual throttle body from ebay)... total; about $2,200....
add GM LS7 cam, beehive valvespring set, Manly chrome-moly pushrods, $800
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100.00
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; $9,900
result; about 480~485 hp at the crank w/ no lope and very friendly street manners.
l
what about one of those or Tyrannosaurus rex setups from Texas Speed....
or this;
POLL;
i've narrowed my engine selection down to 2 final choices that mimic GM production engines w/ baby smooth idle....
please help me decide by voting for your choice below....
Option #1. LS3 376 c.i. crate - (Crate Engine Depot); $6,204
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS3-...70-P10590.aspx
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes (for 944/968) $1,100
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; about $7,300
result; about 445~450 hp at the crank and w/ very friendly street manners.
option # 2 is the fifth setup mentioned in post #59 below;
Option #5. LS7 block w/ ls3 crank @ 388 c.i. w/ LS3 heads/intake, LS7 cam
virgin LS7 short block w/ 4.125" siamese-bore cylinders, LS3 crank w/ 3.62" stroke, forged rods - Scoggin Dickey; $5,800
http://sdparts.com
from parts bin, add fully assembled GM LS3 rect port heads, H20 pump, and all other parts to finish crate; (source LS3 intake, fuel rail, and manual throttle body from ebay)... total; about $2,200....
add GM LS7 cam, beehive valvespring set, Manly chrome-moly pushrods, $800
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100.00
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; $9,900
result; about 480~485 hp at the crank w/ no lope and very friendly street manners.
l
Last edited by odurandina; 03-19-2012 at 08:52 PM.
03-06-2012, 07:51 PM
#49
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well yes... Bruce (95ONE) posted recently which about sums it up....
Yep. I've been wanting to stay all Porsche for a very long time.. Been fighting it.. BUT.. I need to race NOW. And to make the 3.0 even close to working at 400-450 whp somewhat reliably alll the time is some ridiculous amount of money. the V8 cuts (the cost) in HALF... no $hit. So... I'm off to V8 land....
.
Yep. I've been wanting to stay all Porsche for a very long time.. Been fighting it.. BUT.. I need to race NOW. And to make the 3.0 even close to working at 400-450 whp somewhat reliably alll the time is some ridiculous amount of money. the V8 cuts (the cost) in HALF... no $hit. So... I'm off to V8 land....
.
03-07-2012, 09:56 AM
#53
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thanks,
even with Eric's bumpsteer kit, the Fast is a huge manifold. so, i'll be needing to get involved with modifying the hood... first i'll need to eliminate the center frame section (which would necessitate adding strength elsewhere). next, i might need to fabricate a riser...
easy solution; cutting out the center frame section as Tony has done, (but w/ my stock hood);
i can cut out the center frame section, then i'll be left with needing to brace the hood away from the intake. that won't be too hard, maybe just run two pairs of cf tubing along the inside, and laminate another complete layer on the outside... something like this should add sufficient strength to the hood.
exotic solution;
everyone wants a lightweight hood that works properly. there's a good reason you don't see a lot of carbon fiber hoods. still, would sure like to make one.... my strategy would be to get a hold of a second 968 hood and strip it down to the 3 critical pieces.... but before doing that, i would use it as a mold to construct a pretty stiff top by laminating several layers of epoxy resin, standard glass cloth and cf... epoxy is way more expensive and complicated to work with than polyester resin. and just using 3 or 4 sheets of cf would be getting very expensive so, i might have 4 sheets of cf laminated between 5 sheets of glass... also, epoxy is extremely toxic. but there's no reason to bother doing anything if you're not planning to use epoxy and at least some cf... next, mating a pair of cf tubes to run the perimeter and then attach the critical pieces... if i can pull this off, i'd still probably not have enough space to run a strut brace (after Van has completed his work)...
if i can pull this off, it will be one hell of a nice hood.
third option;
it's much easier to begin with a ready-made sheet of plastic so the idea would be to combine a GT Racing hood with the critical parts from a stock hood frame and leave a cutout for the Fast... this would probably require mating a pair of cf tubes to run the perimeter and a couple of sheets of cf to stifen it for street driving. (i've heard the GT Racing body parts aren't close enough to spec to use for a street car) so a lot of modding might be required to bolt to the car as if it were stock....
i should be able to make this up using cf/glass/epoxy and parts of a stock hood.
.
even with Eric's bumpsteer kit, the Fast is a huge manifold. so, i'll be needing to get involved with modifying the hood... first i'll need to eliminate the center frame section (which would necessitate adding strength elsewhere). next, i might need to fabricate a riser...
easy solution; cutting out the center frame section as Tony has done, (but w/ my stock hood);
i can cut out the center frame section, then i'll be left with needing to brace the hood away from the intake. that won't be too hard, maybe just run two pairs of cf tubing along the inside, and laminate another complete layer on the outside... something like this should add sufficient strength to the hood.
exotic solution;
everyone wants a lightweight hood that works properly. there's a good reason you don't see a lot of carbon fiber hoods. still, would sure like to make one.... my strategy would be to get a hold of a second 968 hood and strip it down to the 3 critical pieces.... but before doing that, i would use it as a mold to construct a pretty stiff top by laminating several layers of epoxy resin, standard glass cloth and cf... epoxy is way more expensive and complicated to work with than polyester resin. and just using 3 or 4 sheets of cf would be getting very expensive so, i might have 4 sheets of cf laminated between 5 sheets of glass... also, epoxy is extremely toxic. but there's no reason to bother doing anything if you're not planning to use epoxy and at least some cf... next, mating a pair of cf tubes to run the perimeter and then attach the critical pieces... if i can pull this off, i'd still probably not have enough space to run a strut brace (after Van has completed his work)...
if i can pull this off, it will be one hell of a nice hood.
third option;
it's much easier to begin with a ready-made sheet of plastic so the idea would be to combine a GT Racing hood with the critical parts from a stock hood frame and leave a cutout for the Fast... this would probably require mating a pair of cf tubes to run the perimeter and a couple of sheets of cf to stifen it for street driving. (i've heard the GT Racing body parts aren't close enough to spec to use for a street car) so a lot of modding might be required to bolt to the car as if it were stock....
i should be able to make this up using cf/glass/epoxy and parts of a stock hood.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 03-07-2012 at 02:20 PM.
03-08-2012, 11:05 AM
#54
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for me, it's all those Porsche parts every 20, 30, 40 or 50 k miles and zero net hp gain that i can't afford.
oil pan/crossmember - solved.
motor mount reliability - solved.
serpentine/engine compartment spacing - solved.
cooling - solved.
cooling fan operation - solved.
oil cooling - solved.
ac - solved.
ps - solved.
full power braking - solved.
anti-lock braking - no issues.
intake/throttle body clearance - solved.
front A-arms spacing - solved.
bellhousing adaptor spacing/fitment - solved.
clutch issues - solved.
low-quality oem driveshaft - solved.
short gears/final drive ratio - solved.
reduced cv joint life - solved.
all dash instrumentation - solved.
compare to Porsche/oem. the Porsche 944 engine is decent... the semi-exotic nature of the maintenance schedule/cost vs performance, is quite difficult to justify imo... 944 engine support components fall somewhere between poor~extremely poor....... the 968 engine is superb... the semi-exotic nature of the maintenance schedule/cost vs performance is pricey. engine support components/reliabilty; fair.
.
03-08-2012, 01:08 PM
#55
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more cool stuff !!
My project is building a road race car to compete in the 2006 New Zealand and the 2007 Tasmanian Targa rally.
The platform I have chosen for this build is a 1985 light weight 944 Porsche. We have fitted the car with a roll cage, upgrade 250bhp Porsche turbo twin calliper brakes, 800lb King front springs with Koni shocks and fully adjustable Koni suspension.
I have a Lexus 1UZFE stock motor that we want to develop to produce 400bhp, I plan to fit the 1UZEF as our race motor; however as new comers to Toyota V8s we have no idea as to what’s required to achieve this bhp out put? Any help or suggestions would be welcome. It has been suggested that ITB cams and headers achieve this. (Sorry as a thick Kiwi where do I get info on this equipment)?
If anyone has already planted a 1UZFE in a 944 I would love to know the most successful way of doing this. If not I will share the learning curve as we progress, we believe the car when finished will be a missile. Email: r.clarke@ensid.com
The platform I have chosen for this build is a 1985 light weight 944 Porsche. We have fitted the car with a roll cage, upgrade 250bhp Porsche turbo twin calliper brakes, 800lb King front springs with Koni shocks and fully adjustable Koni suspension.
I have a Lexus 1UZFE stock motor that we want to develop to produce 400bhp, I plan to fit the 1UZEF as our race motor; however as new comers to Toyota V8s we have no idea as to what’s required to achieve this bhp out put? Any help or suggestions would be welcome. It has been suggested that ITB cams and headers achieve this. (Sorry as a thick Kiwi where do I get info on this equipment)?
If anyone has already planted a 1UZFE in a 944 I would love to know the most successful way of doing this. If not I will share the learning curve as we progress, we believe the car when finished will be a missile. Email: r.clarke@ensid.com
ahhh, those way forgotten Toyota scrapyard motors !
Chop what about a bellhousing adaptor ready for them 300 dollar - SC400 V8s ?
03-08-2012, 01:20 PM
#56
I would build them. Post up BH depth dims and the Yota pilot to block face distance. That lets you know weather a puck can be used or the BH itself needs to be milled and a plate tig-welded on. I'm holding out for some crackhead that needs to offload his Viper engine real cheap LOL.
03-18-2012, 03:11 PM
#57
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5 monster combos/comparo....
as a novice to the LSx, i've been trying to learn what i can here and there... recently i decided to seek advice from a few vaunted engine builders including a revered shop in Illinois; Automotive Engine Specialties (AES), the good folks at Total Engine Airflow in Ohio and Comp Cams in Tennessee about some different combinations that would work with the stock LS3 intake/heads and be able to stay under the 944/968's hood without any issues.... interestingly, they were all virtually unanimous about a couple of points... 1; that the LS7 block is by far, the best option for long service life when going past 400 c.i... 2; in the case of the LS3 there's very little to be gained from running a FAST, and for a street application the LS3 intake and heads will still make decent power running a mild cam or adding displacement (of course, LS7 heads are ideal for the LS7 short block, but there are some cost advantages to staying with LS3 heads).
i came across a very nice find this past week... and you can configure a potent Z06 (LS7) engine for thousands of dollars less than an off the shelf LS7 longblock and still retain near-maximum service life..... to show just how much a bargain this combo looks like compared to a bone stock LS7 GM crate, i did a cost comparo for 4 complete engines..... look at the result; nearly a 5 thousand dollar savings in a something that looks pretty reliable;
i chose an extremely mild cam that falls about halfway between stock and a GM hotcam to retain full streetability w/ good fuel economy.... total estimate would be before adding serpentine, bellhousing, clutch, starter, wiring harness and computer....
.
as a novice to the LSx, i've been trying to learn what i can here and there... recently i decided to seek advice from a few vaunted engine builders including a revered shop in Illinois; Automotive Engine Specialties (AES), the good folks at Total Engine Airflow in Ohio and Comp Cams in Tennessee about some different combinations that would work with the stock LS3 intake/heads and be able to stay under the 944/968's hood without any issues.... interestingly, they were all virtually unanimous about a couple of points... 1; that the LS7 block is by far, the best option for long service life when going past 400 c.i... 2; in the case of the LS3 there's very little to be gained from running a FAST, and for a street application the LS3 intake and heads will still make decent power running a mild cam or adding displacement (of course, LS7 heads are ideal for the LS7 short block, but there are some cost advantages to staying with LS3 heads).
i came across a very nice find this past week... and you can configure a potent Z06 (LS7) engine for thousands of dollars less than an off the shelf LS7 longblock and still retain near-maximum service life..... to show just how much a bargain this combo looks like compared to a bone stock LS7 GM crate, i did a cost comparo for 4 complete engines..... look at the result; nearly a 5 thousand dollar savings in a something that looks pretty reliable;
i chose an extremely mild cam that falls about halfway between stock and a GM hotcam to retain full streetability w/ good fuel economy.... total estimate would be before adding serpentine, bellhousing, clutch, starter, wiring harness and computer....
.
Last edited by odurandina; 03-19-2012 at 08:07 PM.
03-19-2012, 08:03 PM
#58
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ok, here they are....
Option #1. LS3 376 c.i. crate - (Crate Engine Depot); $6,204
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS3-...70-P10590.aspx
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; about $7,300
result; about 445~450 hp at the crank and w/ very friendly street manners.
Option #2. LS3 376 c.i. crate w/ mild cam - (Crate Engine Depot); $6,204...
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS3-...70-P10590.aspx
*comp cams mild cam (54-535-11) $399
beehive valvespring set (26918) $337
chrome-moly pushrods (795516) $146
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; about $8,200
result; about 470~480 hp at the crank and w/ friendly street manners (slight lope).
Option #3. LS7 427 c.i. w/ LS3 heads/intake
virgin short block - Scoggin Dickey; $5,999
features real LS7 block, siamese-bore cylinders, forged crank, rods ect...
http://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-d...er/sdls7sb427d
from parts bin, add fully assembled GM LS3 rect port heads, H20 pump, and all other parts to finish crate; (source LS3 intake, fuel rail, and manual throttle body from ebay)... total; about $2,200....
add 30 hp comp cams mild cam (54-535-11) $399.00
beehive valvespring set (26918) $337.00
chrome-moly pushrods (795516) $146.43
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100.00
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; $10,200
result; about 505~510 hp (at least) at the crank w/ slight lope at idle.
Option #4. Z06 LS7 (GM's highest output n/a engine); about $14,000...
engine is basically a fully-race prepped hand built motor from the factory.
add Eric's TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100.00
result; about 525~530 hp at the crank w/ big block thump at idle @ $15,100.
600 hp (crank) setups are fairly routine after going to bigger cams.
Option #5. LS7 block w/ ls3 crank @ 388 c.i. w/ LS3 heads/intake, 2004 Z06 cam
virgin LS7 short block w/ 4.125" siamese-bore cylinders, LS3 crank w/ 3.62" stroke, forged rods - Scoggin Dickey; $5,800
http://sdparts.com
from parts bin, add fully assembled GM LS3 rect port heads, H20 pump, and all other parts to finish crate; (source LS3 intake, fuel rail, and manual throttle body from ebay)... total; about $2,200....
add 2004 Z06 or LS7 cam, beehive valvespring set, Manly chrome-moly pushrods, $800
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100.00
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; $9,900
result; about 480~485 hp at the crank w/ no lope and very friendly street manners.
,
Option #1. LS3 376 c.i. crate - (Crate Engine Depot); $6,204
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS3-...70-P10590.aspx
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; about $7,300
result; about 445~450 hp at the crank and w/ very friendly street manners.
Option #2. LS3 376 c.i. crate w/ mild cam - (Crate Engine Depot); $6,204...
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS3-...70-P10590.aspx
*comp cams mild cam (54-535-11) $399
beehive valvespring set (26918) $337
chrome-moly pushrods (795516) $146
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; about $8,200
result; about 470~480 hp at the crank and w/ friendly street manners (slight lope).
Option #3. LS7 427 c.i. w/ LS3 heads/intake
virgin short block - Scoggin Dickey; $5,999
features real LS7 block, siamese-bore cylinders, forged crank, rods ect...
http://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-d...er/sdls7sb427d
from parts bin, add fully assembled GM LS3 rect port heads, H20 pump, and all other parts to finish crate; (source LS3 intake, fuel rail, and manual throttle body from ebay)... total; about $2,200....
add 30 hp comp cams mild cam (54-535-11) $399.00
beehive valvespring set (26918) $337.00
chrome-moly pushrods (795516) $146.43
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100.00
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; $10,200
result; about 505~510 hp (at least) at the crank w/ slight lope at idle.
Option #4. Z06 LS7 (GM's highest output n/a engine); about $14,000...
engine is basically a fully-race prepped hand built motor from the factory.
add Eric's TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100.00
result; about 525~530 hp at the crank w/ big block thump at idle @ $15,100.
600 hp (crank) setups are fairly routine after going to bigger cams.
Option #5. LS7 block w/ ls3 crank @ 388 c.i. w/ LS3 heads/intake, 2004 Z06 cam
virgin LS7 short block w/ 4.125" siamese-bore cylinders, LS3 crank w/ 3.62" stroke, forged rods - Scoggin Dickey; $5,800
http://sdparts.com
from parts bin, add fully assembled GM LS3 rect port heads, H20 pump, and all other parts to finish crate; (source LS3 intake, fuel rail, and manual throttle body from ebay)... total; about $2,200....
add 2004 Z06 or LS7 cam, beehive valvespring set, Manly chrome-moly pushrods, $800
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100.00
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; $9,900
result; about 480~485 hp at the crank w/ no lope and very friendly street manners.
,
03-19-2012, 08:05 PM
#59
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more;
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...y/viewall.html
LS3;
Introduced on the 2008 Corvette, the LS3 brought LS base performance to an unprecedented level: 430 horsepower from 6.2L (376 cu in) - making it the most powerful base Corvette engine in history. The LS3 block has larger bores than the LS2, and a strengthened casting to support the high-output LS9 supercharged engine of the Corvette ZR1. The LS3 was offered in the Pontiac G8 GXP and is also the standard V-8 engine in the new, 2010 Camaro SS.
LS7;
The LS7 is the standard engine in the Corvette Z06 and its 7.0L displacement (427 cubic inches) makes it the largest LS engine offered in a production car. Unlike all other LSx engines, the LS7 uses a Siamese-bore cylinder block design - required for its big, 4.125-inch bores. Competition-proven heads and lightweight components, such as titanium rods and intake valves, make the LS7 a street-tuned racing engine, with 505 horsepower. LS7 engines are built by hand at the GM Performance Build Center in Wixom, Mich.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...y/viewall.html
LS3;
Introduced on the 2008 Corvette, the LS3 brought LS base performance to an unprecedented level: 430 horsepower from 6.2L (376 cu in) - making it the most powerful base Corvette engine in history. The LS3 block has larger bores than the LS2, and a strengthened casting to support the high-output LS9 supercharged engine of the Corvette ZR1. The LS3 was offered in the Pontiac G8 GXP and is also the standard V-8 engine in the new, 2010 Camaro SS.
LS7;
The LS7 is the standard engine in the Corvette Z06 and its 7.0L displacement (427 cubic inches) makes it the largest LS engine offered in a production car. Unlike all other LSx engines, the LS7 uses a Siamese-bore cylinder block design - required for its big, 4.125-inch bores. Competition-proven heads and lightweight components, such as titanium rods and intake valves, make the LS7 a street-tuned racing engine, with 505 horsepower. LS7 engines are built by hand at the GM Performance Build Center in Wixom, Mich.
03-19-2012, 08:08 PM
#60
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Spencer... you need to drive this car. the new nose cuts through the wind noticably better than stock. it's a solid improvement and the car feels like a brick running at 150+ w/ this heavy 4 cylinder.... remember, i'm running the heavy, GTS rotors, and the swap will add about 20~25 lbs up front before i change to a lighter hood....
The lack of responses from the RL 944 community is a little troubling (j/k)...I know what it is guys, it's because I have an Auto and I'm not doing an LS1 swap, isn't it? The 2.7 isn't enough to make up for the shame to the fine history of Porsche... come on, you can tell me...haha
i admire what you're trying to do.... Porsche has totally forgotten about our cars... i have a very nice four cylinder engine in my car.... Porsche added cubic inches and variocam. i removed the cat and now the engine really breathes... guess what? it's got 245 hp and stills ain't enough. if it had 300 hp, i'd want more, and so on..... and i hate the vibrations of the 2 up 2 down, four cylinder architecture.... it's just me, but you can spend $35 k building your engine to the max and end up with a big fat vibra-dora....
POLL;
i've come up with another killer combo and narrowed my engine selection down to 2 final choices....
please help me decide by voting for your choice below....
Option #1. LS3 376 c.i. crate - (Crate Engine Depot); $6,204
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS3-...70-P10590.aspx
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes (for 944/968) $1,100
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; about $7,300
result; about 445~450 hp at the crank and w/ very friendly street manners.
option # 2 is the fifth setup mentioned on the previous page;
Option #5. LS7 block w/ ls3 crank @ 388 c.i. w/ LS3 heads/intake, LS7 cam
virgin LS7 short block w/ 4.125" siamese-bore cylinders, LS3 crank w/ 3.62" stroke, forged rods - Scoggin Dickey; $5,800
http://sdparts.com
from parts bin, add fully assembled GM LS3 rect port heads, H20 pump, and all other parts to finish crate; (source LS3 intake, fuel rail, and manual throttle body from ebay)... total; about $2,200....
add GM LS7 cam, beehive valvespring set, Manly chrome-moly pushrods, $800
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100.00
total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; $9,900
result; about 480~485 hp at the crank w/ no lope and very friendly street manners.
of course one can always argue for going full bore and stroke......
.
Last edited by odurandina; 03-20-2012 at 02:31 AM.