Why Porsche killed the 944
08-20-2010, 01:43 AM
#17
08-20-2010, 02:55 AM
#19
No, not Mosquito!
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08-23-2010, 11:27 AM
#21
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Very simple.
Slow sales and not enough profit. The 968 was a fine car, but it was just unable to complete with cars of the day in the market place. It was good, but never had the cult following of the 911 to keep it going. As such sales were not there and Porsche needed a new entry level car. They chose to go in a different direction by adapting and sharing technology. That is why the 996 and Boxster share the same front end and engine design.
In the mid 80's the death of the 944 line was ensured when Porsche failed to allow the Turbo to reach its full potential.
Slow sales and not enough profit. The 968 was a fine car, but it was just unable to complete with cars of the day in the market place. It was good, but never had the cult following of the 911 to keep it going. As such sales were not there and Porsche needed a new entry level car. They chose to go in a different direction by adapting and sharing technology. That is why the 996 and Boxster share the same front end and engine design.
In the mid 80's the death of the 944 line was ensured when Porsche failed to allow the Turbo to reach its full potential.
08-23-2010, 03:28 PM
#22
Race Car
To think that the 944 was axed because it was faster than a 911 is not right at all. The watercooled program for porsche started in the late sixties and received gobs of development money over a couple of decades. It was pretty much developed to its maximum with the 968. It seems they quit just when they got it right. A 924-based car was never going to be faster and more reliable than a 911-based car.
08-23-2010, 03:35 PM
#23
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BMW is a much larger company than Porsche, and the 3 is its best-selling car, in a segment that is very profitable and competitive. So if THEY didn't see it as sensible to update a 1991 chassis, Porsche wasn't going to keep playing with a tub that is basically from 1980.
08-23-2010, 04:02 PM
#24
This plus exchange rates and porsches pending move to the "toyota" model of building cars ment the 944 was doomed. It needed a ground up redo, and they decided to run with the fresh and popular boxter. It was a good decision on their part.
08-23-2010, 04:21 PM
#25
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I said ODB2 AND upcoming crash standards were part of the reason.
Do a search on regulations that kicked in from 97-00 that were already known before the 968 came out. Porsche made a decision back then to axe the 944 in favor of a fresh design = Boaster which was first shown to the public in 1993.....
What was the first year of the Boxster? 1997
Bottom line it was a mostly unchanged 1970's design that was going to be far too costly to bring up to date. There was no single reason, but a compilation. They (944/928) were also very expensive to manufacture compared to the Boxster & 993. It wasn't worth it to re-tool for a more cost effective 944/928 design. Was better to simply start over.
Do a search on regulations that kicked in from 97-00 that were already known before the 968 came out. Porsche made a decision back then to axe the 944 in favor of a fresh design = Boaster which was first shown to the public in 1993.....
What was the first year of the Boxster? 1997
Bottom line it was a mostly unchanged 1970's design that was going to be far too costly to bring up to date. There was no single reason, but a compilation. They (944/928) were also very expensive to manufacture compared to the Boxster & 993. It wasn't worth it to re-tool for a more cost effective 944/928 design. Was better to simply start over.
The early BMW E36s had an optional tilt steering wheel. Crash standards that took effect in 96 meant that BMW had to eliminate the option in the US, as the tilt column didn't meet standards.
BMW is a much larger company than Porsche, and the 3 is its best-selling car, in a segment that is very profitable and competitive. So if THEY didn't see it as sensible to update a 1991 chassis, Porsche wasn't going to keep playing with a tub that is basically from 1980.
BMW is a much larger company than Porsche, and the 3 is its best-selling car, in a segment that is very profitable and competitive. So if THEY didn't see it as sensible to update a 1991 chassis, Porsche wasn't going to keep playing with a tub that is basically from 1980.
Not sure why either of you are trying to pound this point... I didn't contest crash-standards. My statement was about the OBD-II change-over.
08-23-2010, 04:46 PM
#26
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I would pick this up differently.
Besides the natural bias of this forum to want an updated 944/968 chassis... why would that be a better idea then the Boxster that Porsche actually went with?
- Mid-engined chassis was a clear market differentiator that enabled Porsche to charge a premium. FR chassis of the 944/968 was getting killed in any value discussion at that time.
- Go down the road a few years and the wisdom of this choice becomes even more clear. All the competition for the 944/968 died off as consumers dwindled for that kind of car. Meanwhile the boxster motored on a a popular and profitable car because of it's different positioning
- The cost savings from linking the boxster and the 996 were critically important for Porsche to survive and none of that could have happened with a new version of the 944/968
BTW, there are plenty of ways the 944/968 could have carried forward on an updated/new chassis:
- OBD and side impact would be addressed as part of a new chassis just like they did with the 911->993->996->997 evolution. They were building a whole new chassis for the boxster so they could just as easily have spent that money on a new FR chassis. See above for reasons why that's a bad idea.
- The 968 is hardly the best FR chassis anyone, including porsche, could ever make. It's very good but there's plenty of room for improvement in chassis stiffness, suspension design, drivetrain improvements, etc. As can be clearly seen from the changes owners make on this forum, there's plenty of room to make improvements even if you aren't the factory.
- The point was and will never be about a faster or more reliable car than the 911. Porsche has learned their lesson with the 928 and will not look to replace the 911. The Boxster is not a faster or more reliable car than the 911, either. Same for the Cayman, Cayenne, and Panamera.
- Taking the above train of logic to its logical extreme about a car ever usurping the 911 misses an important piece of reality... Car manufacturers of Porsche's size do not survive with only one model. They do even worse if they have two models that do the same thing at the same price point. 924/944/968 owners, boxster owners, cayman owners... all complain about how porsche is somehow unreasonably neutering their car. If they made any of those cars as good as a 911 they would cost as much as a 911. That's a great way to go out of business.
Like most things... it isn't some big conspiracy.
Besides the natural bias of this forum to want an updated 944/968 chassis... why would that be a better idea then the Boxster that Porsche actually went with?
- Mid-engined chassis was a clear market differentiator that enabled Porsche to charge a premium. FR chassis of the 944/968 was getting killed in any value discussion at that time.
- Go down the road a few years and the wisdom of this choice becomes even more clear. All the competition for the 944/968 died off as consumers dwindled for that kind of car. Meanwhile the boxster motored on a a popular and profitable car because of it's different positioning
- The cost savings from linking the boxster and the 996 were critically important for Porsche to survive and none of that could have happened with a new version of the 944/968
BTW, there are plenty of ways the 944/968 could have carried forward on an updated/new chassis:
- OBD and side impact would be addressed as part of a new chassis just like they did with the 911->993->996->997 evolution. They were building a whole new chassis for the boxster so they could just as easily have spent that money on a new FR chassis. See above for reasons why that's a bad idea.
- The 968 is hardly the best FR chassis anyone, including porsche, could ever make. It's very good but there's plenty of room for improvement in chassis stiffness, suspension design, drivetrain improvements, etc. As can be clearly seen from the changes owners make on this forum, there's plenty of room to make improvements even if you aren't the factory.
- The point was and will never be about a faster or more reliable car than the 911. Porsche has learned their lesson with the 928 and will not look to replace the 911. The Boxster is not a faster or more reliable car than the 911, either. Same for the Cayman, Cayenne, and Panamera.
- Taking the above train of logic to its logical extreme about a car ever usurping the 911 misses an important piece of reality... Car manufacturers of Porsche's size do not survive with only one model. They do even worse if they have two models that do the same thing at the same price point. 924/944/968 owners, boxster owners, cayman owners... all complain about how porsche is somehow unreasonably neutering their car. If they made any of those cars as good as a 911 they would cost as much as a 911. That's a great way to go out of business.
Like most things... it isn't some big conspiracy.
08-23-2010, 05:26 PM
#27
Rainman
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while it certainly could be done again, a new 944, i dont think id want porsche to do that, as it would bring too many of the status-seeking douchebags (not all drivers, just many of the 16-30 year old ed hardy guys) currently in 3 series, c-classes and a4's to the porsche world and there'd be more dilution of the brand..i am not a porsche "purist" by any stretch of the word but i would rather not be associated with those idiots...
08-23-2010, 09:20 PM
#28
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while it certainly could be done again, a new 944, i dont think id want porsche to do that, as it would bring too many of the status-seeking douchebags (not all drivers, just many of the 16-30 year old ed hardy guys) currently in 3 series, c-classes and a4's to the porsche world and there'd be more dilution of the brand..i am not a porsche "purist" by any stretch of the word but i would rather not be associated with those idiots...
08-24-2010, 12:05 PM
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while it certainly could be done again, a new 944, i dont think id want porsche to do that, as it would bring too many of the status-seeking douchebags (not all drivers, just many of the 16-30 year old ed hardy guys) currently in 3 series, c-classes and a4's to the porsche world and there'd be more dilution of the brand..i am not a porsche "purist" by any stretch of the word but i would rather not be associated with those idiots...
08-24-2010, 07:31 PM
#30
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In many ways the 924/944/968 was made up in a sort of parts bin method. Front arms were from VW Golf/Rabbit and the rears are from a Beetle. Amazing to think how competitive they have been over the years. A shame they didn't apply a similar twin arm setup as the 928.
