cmoss

Ummm... NPR doesn't stand for National Porsche Radio?

Ah... More off topic religious nonsense.

BTW These philosophical arguments are getting a bit tedious.

[quote] All I'm saying is there is at least as much evidence of an intelligent creation as there is that the universe "just happened". <hr></blockquote>

Those who build their life around their faith (at least as to how it is communicated to them) will always find discomfort in scientific evidence that runs contrary to their belief system.

Mostly this displays a lack of understanding about the workings of science. Evolution and creationism are just not comparable theories.

[quote] Sure there is natural selection within species, but there are huge gaps in the strata record and examples of transitory species are mysteriously missing. <hr></blockquote>

What? All fossils have been found? We have many more fossils this year than last. We will have more next year. What is the probabilitiy of finding a specific fossil form? For empirical evidence of evolution look to the fossil record regarding dinosaurs (I believe therapodia(sp) is the subgroup), and the emergence of birds. Every year more transitional fossils are unearthed.

Note also that the best theory explaining the universe (that would be the Big Bang theory), explains absolutly nothing about why this should be so.

Stephen Jay Gould had the right perspective: The world is big enough for both science and religion.

I relinquish the soapbox.

Chris

iloveporsches

[quote]
<strong>
That's indeed true. In high school (NJ) I refused to acknowledge "the Pledge", and was threatened with suspension.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

My friend was suspended until he apologized for not standing up for the national anthem. During the assembly a day later, about 25 of his friends, including me, who didn't neccesarily share his views but wanted to support him, refused to stand. Teachers tried to forcably stand us up, and other students threw change at us (we told them it was going to the Gay Communist Party of Canada, which prompted them to throw more change at us). Needless to say, after that, and after he got a lawyer and threatened legal action, they let him back in after apologizing to HIM.

[quote]Originally posted by cmoss:
<strong>
What? All fossils have been found? We have many more fossils this year than last. We will have more next year. What is the probabilitiy of finding a specific fossil form? For empirical evidence of evolution look to the fossil record regarding dinosaurs (I believe therapodia(sp) is the subgroup), and the emergence of birds. Every year more transitional fossils are unearthed.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's kinda like the "God of Gaps' theory; religion has always been used to explain phenomenom (correct or not), but slowly science is explaining some of these things with phsyics, chemistry, thermodynamics, fossil records, research, etc.

The only "proof" for intelligent design that I'm aware of is the Bible, or other religious scripture. If those are your beliefs, then stick to them. But all too often, religion is drilled into a child's head and sticks. And one someone comes along and questions it, they get offended, because they never bothered ot examine their beliefs themselves...

ok, I just got that far and realized how extremely off topic this is getting, and I'm ending my post there. This is getting way too far off topic to continue this, and this really isn't the forum to do it in anyway. Thanks all, and no offense meant to anyone, just a little friendly debate <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

<img src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" border="0" alt="[offtopic]" />

JasonAndreas

[quote]Originally posted by AutoXdriver:
<strong>

Here's another one: Teaching (preaching) only athiesm (a religion) in our public schools as if thats simply the only valid theological position. And doing it in the name of "freedom of religion". What a crock.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The problem is not that schools only teach athiesm. The problem is that there are 12 major and over several hundred minor (population wise) ideas about what religion is. When those that need to believe can decide on one, call me.

My god is ah,
-=&gt; theology major joke

FormulaOne10

[quote] I suspect that anyone who really believes in the principles that our country was founded on, would find that they really are "conservative" but the media has put such a negative connotation to that label, most wouldn't dare admit it. Class envy, governmental redistribution of wealth, "progrssive" taxes that penalize success, "from each according to his means"-- that's stuff straight from Karl Marx. We've gone the wrong way for a long time.
<hr></blockquote>

Very well put.

AutoXdriver

[quote]Originally posted by iloveporsches:
<strong>
The only "proof" for intelligent design that I'm aware of is the Bible, or other religious scripture. If those are your beliefs, then stick to them. But all too often, religion is drilled into a child's head and sticks. And one someone comes along and questions it, they get offended, because they never bothered ot examine their beliefs themselves...
</strong><hr></blockquote>

You cannot dispute that there is no proof for non-intelligent design either. Thats my whole (and only) point. The odds against the universe (and life) just happening are incredible. The scientific community just assumes that because they can't accept the other possibility. Now who is ignoring evidence in favor of their own pre-concieved notions? As someone pointed out the big bang theory is the best we have right now for the beginning of the universe and that fits an intelligent creation at least as well as it fits anything else.

I'm just saying there is room for more than one view and we aren't giving our children the choice. Public schools shouldn't teach any religion or theology and in my opinion that is what they are doing. They shold only teach what we know is fact and be honest about the rest.

God drives a Porsche. There, I'm on topic <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

Kool

[quote] I suspect that anyone who really believes in the principles that our country was founded on, would find that they really are "conservative" but the media has put such a negative connotation to that label, most wouldn't dare admit it. Class envy, governmental redistribution of wealth, "progrssive" taxes that penalize success, "from each according to his means"-- that's stuff straight from Karl Marx. We've gone the wrong way for a long time.
<hr></blockquote>

I agree 100%.

It is Rush who pushed me to vote. I started listening while I was in school. And the only reason I would listen was to hear what rediculous blather he had to say on that particular day. Well, long story short when the politicians started campaigning for the election Rush started making a lot of sense. I still don't agree with everything he says but I do tend to align myself with the conservative ideals that he preaches.

On another note "Slander" is one of the best books I have ever read. There is absolutely no arguing any point made in that book. Anne really ticked some people off but it was more like calling a spade a spade then spin.

antne1950

[quote] And they're hardly *****. For that, try Limbaugh or Coulter. <hr></blockquote>

Anne a ****?, somebody needs to take their head outta that bucket they're wearing !

NPR?, what a bunch of Al Bore tree huggers !

antne1950

[quote] That's indeed true. In high school (NJ) I refused to acknowledge "the Pledge", and was threatened with suspension. <hr></blockquote>

Better yet, how bout deportation to that wonderful "worker's paradise" just south of Florida. Uncle Fidel would just love that behavior. You know, there's a lotta guys of
just past high school age buried at Normandy who died so your punk a** could pull a stunt like that!

Kool

Antne I couldn't agree with you more.

Dare

[quote] Better yet, how bout deportation to that wonderful "worker's paradise" just south of Florida. Uncle Fidel would just love that behavior. You know, there's a lotta guys of
just past high school age buried at Normandy who died so your punk a** could pull a stunt like that! <hr></blockquote>

Holy ****! You could cut the irony in that statement with a knife!

So, could your devotion to the American principals of freedom of expression be any more superficial? Perhaps it’s you who should be taking a trip south of the border. Somehow I think you and Fidel would get along just fine!

Robby

Why do I always have to respond the these? First off, let me be the third to say that I totally agree w/the following....


[quote]Originally posted by Dave951M:
Class envy, governmental redistribution of wealth "progrssive" taxes that penalize success, "from each according to his means"-- that's stuff straight from Karl Marx. We've gone the wrong way for a long time.<hr></blockquote>


As for creationism vs evolution: I just don't understand why religion AND science can't coexist? Why can't God have created science? It seems so silly for everyone to hate so much over differing beliefs, or b/c they don't understand, etc- like terrorists attacking countries over religion. How lucky they must be to KNOW that they alone hold the secret to which is the one and only true god People are SO SURE that THEIR god is THE god. ~500yrs ago, the whole world was 100% COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY SURE the earth was FLAT! If you were born in China, what are the chances you'd be Catholic, Jewish, etc? Born in Israel- how likely would you be Hindu? Are 1.2 billion Chinese going to hell along w/their ancestors b/c they believe in the wrong god? What about us? Most of us are in the minority- does that mean WE'RE wrong? I don't know where I'm going w/this exactly, but one point I always try to drive home during debates, is that our biggest wordly problem now is OVERPOPULATION- plain and simple! Did you know, that if you lived to be 100yrs old, that the total amount of SECONDS you would have lived would be HALF the world's current population?

iloveporsches

[quote]Originally posted by antne1950:
<strong>

Better yet, how bout deportation to that wonderful "worker's paradise" just south of Florida. Uncle Fidel would just love that behavior. You know, there's a lotta guys of
just past high school age buried at Normandy who died so your punk a** could pull a stunt like that!</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's what a love about the American public. Preach about how great our freedom is (and it is pretty good), but as soon as someone wsays anything anti-american, they should be silenced. One of the principles this country was founded on was the right to dissent, to question what the government is doing, and to protest in non-violent ways to bring about change. One thing that really brought this thought to me was the Vietnam slogan "America-Love it or Leave", or paraphrased "America-If you don't agree with us you're wrong and should shutup and you're anti-American (which is false) and dumb and stupid and leave!"

I thought I said I wasn't going to respond anymore? Oh well...

Dave951M

HEAR YE, HEAR YE, American Civics 101 is now in session. (For those of you who were taught by closet communists )

ILOVEPORSCHE or whatever your name is- just as you do have the right to expression in this country, that right doesn't mean you are correct. As you pointed out earlier, this is a "free exchange of ideas" (however misguided by some liberals). If your pals would support the "gay communist party of canada" what does that say to the rest of us about your choice of friends? I think you chose poorly. Then again, what would you expect from a liberal stronghold run by the Daly Corp.? When you get a number of years on you, have to raise children, do your own taxes (not pay H&R either), then you may have something intelligent to offer. I assert again, the country has headed the wrong way for too long.

Taxes- a "progressive" tax penalizes success. Do you really want to be rich when the libs are out to soak you and make you pay your "fair" share? The raw fact is that most of the tax revenues are paid by the wealthiest 5% of Americans. THAT IS NOT FAIR!! and I'm not even wealthy and it steams me. Bring on the flat tax-- FOR EVERYBODY. The welfare heads will really find out just how much we subsidize them.

DEFENSE- our military is a bargain by any measure. We spend about 5-6% of GDP for what is the world's best armed forces, bar none. The dirty secret of the libs is that we spend about 50% of GDP on entitlements- yes- GIVEAWAYS!!! to groups who haven't earned it or have been brainwashed by the libs into thinking they are owed it. What a load of hogwash.

SOCIAL SECURITY- what a joke. Another lib lie that is soon to go bust in our lifetimes. Let me make the choice of my own retirement. Look how much is taken out of your check every week, put that into a low-growth IRA and you will outstrip the growth of SS by several orders of magnitude. I don't like some pencil-necked lib dictating to my how I should invest my own money.

DIVERSITY- isn't "e pluribus unum" a familiar phrase? Out of many, one. Either integrate into American society or quit complaining and leave, you are quite free to do so.

First period is now ended, for homework class, read the US CONSTITUTION, the BILL OF RIGHTS, WEALTH OF NATIONS, DAS CAPITAL, and the COMMUNIST MANIFESTO. Then return and we shall find out just where you would really like to live.

I apologize for the lengthy discourse, but libs really light me up. They ought to go back to school and quit ruining my life!

Creation v Evolution, both require equal amounts of faith. The key to the decision is what happens if you're wrong and God's right, make your choice, He is waiting patiently. No one will force you to choose poorly.

iloveporsches

[quote]Originally posted by Dave951M:
<strong>
ILOVEPORSCHE or whatever your name is- just as you do have the right to expression in this country, that right doesn't mean you are correct. As you pointed out earlier, this is a "free exchange of ideas" (however misguided by some liberals). If your pals would support the "gay communist party of canada" what does that say to the rest of us about your choice of friends? I think you chose poorly. Then again, what would you expect from a liberal stronghold run by the Daly Corp.? When you get a number of years on you, have to raise children, do your own taxes (not pay H&R either), then you may have something intelligent to offer. I assert again, the country has headed the wrong way for too long.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

In case you couldn't tell, there is no "Gay Communist Party of Canada", at least as far as I'm aware. We did that because we knew it woudl anger them more, and we were right. I already said not everyone, including myself, agreed with his views, but we still showed support for our friend. That was the sole intention of us not standing up at that assembly. I am not anti-American, I think this country is a fantastic place to live in. It's what we do outside of this country that frightens me...

And also, please don't insult me by saying that I ahve nothing intelligent to say. And I don't like Daly very much at all. And what we have been expressing in this topic is OPINIONS, so there is no "right" or "wrong", jackass. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Dave951M

Rank hubris will not advance anyone's opinion of your morality in "standing up for your pal". Last time I looked the libs in the Dem party used that animal you mentioned as their mascot. Would you also support that "friend" if he wanted to raise your taxes because you "aren't paying your fair share?", how about if he wanted to abolish all religous practices, or maybe institute reverse discrimination?

As for what we have done outside the country- your liberal roots are showing. If we are so wrong in what we do, then why are we the only remaining superpower? Why would anyone want to come here and be a citizen? Why in the world should we ever give any other country aid or disaster relief? Why should we care if anyone engaged in ethnic cleansing?

Get up from the keyboard, go outside for some fresh air, and listen to a conservative some time. I think the experience will change your mind.