OT -- Boxter guy on Nazi Public Radio
10-01-2002, 11:38 PM
#62
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Yo Dave951M
Liberal/conservative aside...
[quote] Creation v Evolution, both require equal amounts of faith. The key to the decision is what happens if you're wrong and God's right, make your choice, He is waiting patiently. No one will force you to choose poorly. <hr></blockquote>
It is clear that you understand not the first thing about evolution in particular, or the scientific method in general. You have made up your mind based on nothing more than faith. As an agnostic I find it amusing that the faithful will always pull out the "you'll burn in hell" argument. Not all religions have a hell. What if you're confused and are really--say--Hindu? Given the abundance of religions, how-assuming there is a true religion--do you know your religion is the right one?
And, like wow, I didn't know it was a contest about being right between some sort of god and myself.
I take very little on faith. I do know several things. Humans are not the biggest/fastest/strongest/deadliest creatures on the planet. We do one small thing better than any other creature else that has ever walked the face of the earth. We think.
And I intend to use my brain to understand the world as best I can. No appeal to mystic powers beyond the realm of man.
Data->Theory->Test->Refine->Data->...
Cheers,
Chris
Ps Sorry about the rant, but I do not like the insinuation that nonbelievers are doomed to some sort of eternal damnation. This allows very judgmental people to claim a moral high ground, where no such claim is warranted.
Liberal/conservative aside...
[quote] Creation v Evolution, both require equal amounts of faith. The key to the decision is what happens if you're wrong and God's right, make your choice, He is waiting patiently. No one will force you to choose poorly. <hr></blockquote>
It is clear that you understand not the first thing about evolution in particular, or the scientific method in general. You have made up your mind based on nothing more than faith. As an agnostic I find it amusing that the faithful will always pull out the "you'll burn in hell" argument. Not all religions have a hell. What if you're confused and are really--say--Hindu? Given the abundance of religions, how-assuming there is a true religion--do you know your religion is the right one?
And, like wow, I didn't know it was a contest about being right between some sort of god and myself.
I take very little on faith. I do know several things. Humans are not the biggest/fastest/strongest/deadliest creatures on the planet. We do one small thing better than any other creature else that has ever walked the face of the earth. We think.
And I intend to use my brain to understand the world as best I can. No appeal to mystic powers beyond the realm of man.
Data->Theory->Test->Refine->Data->...
Cheers,
Chris
Ps Sorry about the rant, but I do not like the insinuation that nonbelievers are doomed to some sort of eternal damnation. This allows very judgmental people to claim a moral high ground, where no such claim is warranted.
10-01-2002, 11:49 PM
#63
[quote]Originally posted by Dave951M:
<strong>Rank hubris will not advance anyone's opinion of your morality in "standing up for your pal". Last time I looked the libs in the Dem party used that animal you mentioned as their mascot. Would you also support that "friend" if he wanted to raise your taxes because you "aren't paying your fair share?", how about if he wanted to abolish all religous practices, or maybe institute reverse discrimination?
As for what we have done outside the country- your liberal roots are showing. If we are so wrong in what we do, then why are we the only remaining superpower? Why would anyone want to come here and be a citizen? Why in the world should we ever give any other country aid or disaster relief? Why should we care if anyone engaged in ethnic cleansing?
Get up from the keyboard, go outside for some fresh air, and listen to a conservative some time. I think the experience will change your mind.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ironically enough, my friend is a socialist, and he'd probably want to abolish all religion. I, however, do not share most of his politcal views, not even close. I wouldn't support socialism, and I think religious communities can be a great thing when they help the community through food drives, support, etc. But what the school did to him was wrong and illegal. He doesn't support the American government, and didn't want to fake it. He held to his beliefs instead of conforming. When he was punished for that, we felt we needed to do something. We came up with a peaceful, easy way to get our message across and it worked.
Good, I'm glad my "liberal roots" are showing, because those are my beliefs. Read up on our forein policies and past actions, I'm sure you'll be appaled. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to try and find a bunch of sources. You can if you want to educate yourself.
And about your last comment, I was just thinking about that. All day at work I kept thinking that I'm really not sure who's side I'm more on, because I don't know where each side stands on each issue. I plan on researching this and making some decisions, especially since I'll be voting in a year. I don't know if you've examined your personal stances lately, but please try to be more open-minded. Just because someone is "liberal" doesn't make them an idiot, a liar, wrong, stupid, insane, crazy, etc. No matter what, though, Bush Jr. is still an idiot
P.S. Sorry for the insult earlier, that was uncalled for.
<strong>Rank hubris will not advance anyone's opinion of your morality in "standing up for your pal". Last time I looked the libs in the Dem party used that animal you mentioned as their mascot. Would you also support that "friend" if he wanted to raise your taxes because you "aren't paying your fair share?", how about if he wanted to abolish all religous practices, or maybe institute reverse discrimination?
As for what we have done outside the country- your liberal roots are showing. If we are so wrong in what we do, then why are we the only remaining superpower? Why would anyone want to come here and be a citizen? Why in the world should we ever give any other country aid or disaster relief? Why should we care if anyone engaged in ethnic cleansing?
Get up from the keyboard, go outside for some fresh air, and listen to a conservative some time. I think the experience will change your mind.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ironically enough, my friend is a socialist, and he'd probably want to abolish all religion. I, however, do not share most of his politcal views, not even close. I wouldn't support socialism, and I think religious communities can be a great thing when they help the community through food drives, support, etc. But what the school did to him was wrong and illegal. He doesn't support the American government, and didn't want to fake it. He held to his beliefs instead of conforming. When he was punished for that, we felt we needed to do something. We came up with a peaceful, easy way to get our message across and it worked.
Good, I'm glad my "liberal roots" are showing, because those are my beliefs. Read up on our forein policies and past actions, I'm sure you'll be appaled. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to try and find a bunch of sources. You can if you want to educate yourself.
And about your last comment, I was just thinking about that. All day at work I kept thinking that I'm really not sure who's side I'm more on, because I don't know where each side stands on each issue. I plan on researching this and making some decisions, especially since I'll be voting in a year. I don't know if you've examined your personal stances lately, but please try to be more open-minded. Just because someone is "liberal" doesn't make them an idiot, a liar, wrong, stupid, insane, crazy, etc. No matter what, though, Bush Jr. is still an idiot
P.S. Sorry for the insult earlier, that was uncalled for.
10-02-2002, 12:29 AM
#66
Drifting
Hey - just saw that picture of Jr. on page 1 - THAT's FUNNY.
To be honest, I think we were screwed either way in the last election. Everybody wants to think this or that, in perceived polar opposition. Lots of good it has done us - it boiled down to the two guys most likely to have fallen for the "push-him-backward-over-the-guy-on-all-fours" joke as our choices for leadership.
The flip side is that here in America, I can have very different views than Dave951M on this stuff without any detrimental effect on friendship, and I can live in a middle-class neighborhood where Arabs and Jews make good neighbors. (even if our most intelligent end up being CEOs instead of Commanders-in-Chief)
Hell we all hate taxes and are wary of the Patriot Act, so we're in the same chapter, if not the same page.
I'm just tired of being sold to like I'm some idiot jackass by the political parties, and Rush ain't pontificating with the best of them, to say the least. (there is probably some Democratic/Liberal spouting media figure on NPR to parallel him with, but I can't think of any at the moment - just that doddering Diame Rheams)
Anyway, show me a radio station other than NPR with shows the same calibre as Fresh Air, Kojo Nambdis show (the name escapes me), and This American Life, and I'll tune in to that, as well!
Additionally, I'd like to know of a conservative venue that broadcasts BBC or other foreign news (if we are insisting on referring to NPR as liberal) - Seems like the best way to remove a partisan slant is get out of the bipartisan arena, wouldn't you agree?
To be honest, I think we were screwed either way in the last election. Everybody wants to think this or that, in perceived polar opposition. Lots of good it has done us - it boiled down to the two guys most likely to have fallen for the "push-him-backward-over-the-guy-on-all-fours" joke as our choices for leadership.
The flip side is that here in America, I can have very different views than Dave951M on this stuff without any detrimental effect on friendship, and I can live in a middle-class neighborhood where Arabs and Jews make good neighbors. (even if our most intelligent end up being CEOs instead of Commanders-in-Chief)
Hell we all hate taxes and are wary of the Patriot Act, so we're in the same chapter, if not the same page.
I'm just tired of being sold to like I'm some idiot jackass by the political parties, and Rush ain't pontificating with the best of them, to say the least. (there is probably some Democratic/Liberal spouting media figure on NPR to parallel him with, but I can't think of any at the moment - just that doddering Diame Rheams)
Anyway, show me a radio station other than NPR with shows the same calibre as Fresh Air, Kojo Nambdis show (the name escapes me), and This American Life, and I'll tune in to that, as well!
Additionally, I'd like to know of a conservative venue that broadcasts BBC or other foreign news (if we are insisting on referring to NPR as liberal) - Seems like the best way to remove a partisan slant is get out of the bipartisan arena, wouldn't you agree?
10-02-2002, 01:27 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by keith:
<strong>America needs more college radio!</strong><hr></blockquote>Actually, American needs college grads that know how to read and write and haven't been brain-washed by the far left leaning professors.
<strong>America needs more college radio!</strong><hr></blockquote>Actually, American needs college grads that know how to read and write and haven't been brain-washed by the far left leaning professors.
10-02-2002, 02:26 AM
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Anybody ever wonder whether God created evolution?
Just a thought..........
How come the two concepts can't be melded into one? Suppose, just for grins and giggles that the end product was to be man. If there is an intelligent order to the universe, who is to say how long this intelligence might take to get to the end result. Maybe this intelligence is, like most of us, a tinkerer. Change this a little, tweak that, and let's see what happens....After all, this intelligence has all the time in the world, and probably more.......
Just a thought..........
How come the two concepts can't be melded into one? Suppose, just for grins and giggles that the end product was to be man. If there is an intelligent order to the universe, who is to say how long this intelligence might take to get to the end result. Maybe this intelligence is, like most of us, a tinkerer. Change this a little, tweak that, and let's see what happens....After all, this intelligence has all the time in the world, and probably more.......
10-02-2002, 07:41 AM
#71
Drifting
[quote] Actually, American needs college grads that know how to read and write and haven't been brain-washed by the far left leaning professors. <hr></blockquote>
...instead of their far right leaning parents?
...instead of their far right leaning parents?
10-02-2002, 08:08 AM
#72
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Chris-
To imply I don't understand anything about evolution is an invalid assumption on your part. I merely used an extension of Pascal's delimma. Evolution DOES require a huge leap of faith if it is to be entirely believed, ie. "where did all this start?" The scientific method to date hasn't been able to prove any cross-species evolution, only within species. Mass extinctions are also a theory, but backed up by some very strong evidence. Personally, I believe that evolution as we teach it in schools may have been a tool God used to shape this world. I'll ask when I get there. Till then, to argue the point and insist that fundamental creationists are a bunch of wackos is counterproductive and will only serve to harden the hearts of the listeners.
To imply I don't understand anything about evolution is an invalid assumption on your part. I merely used an extension of Pascal's delimma. Evolution DOES require a huge leap of faith if it is to be entirely believed, ie. "where did all this start?" The scientific method to date hasn't been able to prove any cross-species evolution, only within species. Mass extinctions are also a theory, but backed up by some very strong evidence. Personally, I believe that evolution as we teach it in schools may have been a tool God used to shape this world. I'll ask when I get there. Till then, to argue the point and insist that fundamental creationists are a bunch of wackos is counterproductive and will only serve to harden the hearts of the listeners.
10-02-2002, 08:28 AM
#73
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[quote]Originally posted by keith:
<strong>
...instead of their far right leaning parents?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Someone has to at least try to cancel out acadamia. Of course, it seems to be failing...
This really needs to get moved to the OT forum.
<strong>
...instead of their far right leaning parents?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Someone has to at least try to cancel out acadamia. Of course, it seems to be failing...
This really needs to get moved to the OT forum.
10-02-2002, 09:02 AM
#74
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Porsche5050 -- now THAT'S FUNNY!
I agree this thread has definitely taken on a life of it's own. But I gotta say, being from TX that 'W' was not the sharpest knife in the collective drawers of TX. Having said that Al Bore is a complete ditz as well -- I agree we didn't have much to choose from and kinda were gettin' the screwin' either way. It kind of surprises me a little that we can't seem to find better candidates though. Somebody actually probably said Hey What this country needs is George W (or Al Gore) running it -- pretty much either is INCONCIEVABLE (see movie Princess Bride for pronunciations).
There is no conspiracy here just because there appears to be more right-leaners than left-wieners (at least that's the story on 'Bill'). I'm am engineer and there are virtually no socialists [Dems] in the field (everyone's math skills are high). There's not a conspiracy, but people who are attracted to the profession share some common characteristics - in this case they can add.
I don't think there is a conspiracy in the media toward liberalism (certainly a misnomer) but that that profession attracts people that FEEL compelled to express themselves, and are by there very nature touchy-feely folk. The reason Rush (can't really compare him to a thinking man's man like William F. Buckley) resound with a lot of people is that there is finally someone that is saying what they are thinking instead of what the media wants them to be thinking.
I agree that the world is certainly big enough for science and religion, but I wouldn't want the school teaching my kids there brand of it - that's my job. Personally, as an engineer/scientist I don't really see the conflict - they answer completely different questions - what and why.
I agree this thread has definitely taken on a life of it's own. But I gotta say, being from TX that 'W' was not the sharpest knife in the collective drawers of TX. Having said that Al Bore is a complete ditz as well -- I agree we didn't have much to choose from and kinda were gettin' the screwin' either way. It kind of surprises me a little that we can't seem to find better candidates though. Somebody actually probably said Hey What this country needs is George W (or Al Gore) running it -- pretty much either is INCONCIEVABLE (see movie Princess Bride for pronunciations).
There is no conspiracy here just because there appears to be more right-leaners than left-wieners (at least that's the story on 'Bill'). I'm am engineer and there are virtually no socialists [Dems] in the field (everyone's math skills are high). There's not a conspiracy, but people who are attracted to the profession share some common characteristics - in this case they can add.
I don't think there is a conspiracy in the media toward liberalism (certainly a misnomer) but that that profession attracts people that FEEL compelled to express themselves, and are by there very nature touchy-feely folk. The reason Rush (can't really compare him to a thinking man's man like William F. Buckley) resound with a lot of people is that there is finally someone that is saying what they are thinking instead of what the media wants them to be thinking.
I agree that the world is certainly big enough for science and religion, but I wouldn't want the school teaching my kids there brand of it - that's my job. Personally, as an engineer/scientist I don't really see the conflict - they answer completely different questions - what and why.
10-02-2002, 09:30 AM
#75
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[quote] They ought to go back to school and quit ruining my life!
<hr></blockquote>
You go Mad Max.
<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
<hr></blockquote>
You go Mad Max.
<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />