Race car .. or daily driver?
10-14-2002, 09:04 PM
#1
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Race car .. or daily driver?
What do you think I (as a high school senior) would enjoy more - racing my '83, or keeping it beautiful? Still paying off my car, but I have roughly $150 extra a week to burn and no license until January. So it's either keep it nice and drive it, or buy a daily beater and race it.
1)How much do you think it would cost to race prep my car? (to enter) (to be decent) (to win)
2)Could I sell stuff I rip out for a decent amount(eg. seats[bl leather], wheels[black fuch's w/ new tires], engine[103k miles]). How much do you think I could get for all of it?
3)Do I have to keep the stock dash, or just any dash?
4)Is a rollcage necessary? Some kind of flame retardant suit?
5)Where can I get a copy of a PCA rulebook? schedule of events?
6)Anything else I forgot .. ?
1)How much do you think it would cost to race prep my car? (to enter) (to be decent) (to win)
2)Could I sell stuff I rip out for a decent amount(eg. seats[bl leather], wheels[black fuch's w/ new tires], engine[103k miles]). How much do you think I could get for all of it?
3)Do I have to keep the stock dash, or just any dash?
4)Is a rollcage necessary? Some kind of flame retardant suit?
5)Where can I get a copy of a PCA rulebook? schedule of events?
6)Anything else I forgot .. ?
10-14-2002, 11:21 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Ok, i will take a shot at this for you.
First off you said you were still paying it off, so my vote is not to race it. The nature of racing is do have problems, more than 150 dollars a month worth. If you want to take it to the track do so, but do it in a drivers ed. You don't have to do as much to the car and it is a heck of a lot of fun and the best way to learn the limits of your car and to expand your own limits.
1) To race prep a car: well just to enter you don't have to throw to much at it. There are stock classes from the PCA and the cars are very close to stock. You'll need a roll bar and a harness at a minimum, then a set of track tires. So budget in 1500 at the very least for that stuff. You want to be competitive, then you'll need suspension, and to reword the motor within the rules, and that i going to cost you a good deal more, to be a front runner, well the driver and car must learn a lot more about eachother, hours of driving, good equipment, etc, lots of cash.
Ok, I was going to go question by question, but really you have to pick a class you want to race in first, you have many classes with many sanctioning bodies. Have a look at the SCCA, PCA, NASA, and pick a class (best to start in things closer to stock) Most of them have rule books online.
Good luck,
but again, you are paying off the car, so don't put it in danger of being a pile of metal before you pay it off.
First off you said you were still paying it off, so my vote is not to race it. The nature of racing is do have problems, more than 150 dollars a month worth. If you want to take it to the track do so, but do it in a drivers ed. You don't have to do as much to the car and it is a heck of a lot of fun and the best way to learn the limits of your car and to expand your own limits.
1) To race prep a car: well just to enter you don't have to throw to much at it. There are stock classes from the PCA and the cars are very close to stock. You'll need a roll bar and a harness at a minimum, then a set of track tires. So budget in 1500 at the very least for that stuff. You want to be competitive, then you'll need suspension, and to reword the motor within the rules, and that i going to cost you a good deal more, to be a front runner, well the driver and car must learn a lot more about eachother, hours of driving, good equipment, etc, lots of cash.
Ok, I was going to go question by question, but really you have to pick a class you want to race in first, you have many classes with many sanctioning bodies. Have a look at the SCCA, PCA, NASA, and pick a class (best to start in things closer to stock) Most of them have rule books online.
Good luck,
but again, you are paying off the car, so don't put it in danger of being a pile of metal before you pay it off.
10-14-2002, 11:39 PM
#4
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Red 944:
<strong>What do you think I (as a high school senior) would enjoy more - racing my '83, or keeping it beautiful? Still paying off my car, but I have roughly $150 extra a week to burn and no license until January. So it's either keep it nice and drive it, or buy a daily beater and race it.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
As Ian said, don't even consider racing a car you're still paying for. Some have done it, but that's a dangerous propositon.
[quote]Originally posted by Red 944:
<strong>1)How much do you think it would cost to race prep my car? (to enter) (to be decent) (to win)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know about PCA stock classes, but in 944 Cup, 944 Spec or SCCA ITS if you want to win you'd better figure on an absolute minimum of $10k to even think about winning and actually winning will likely cost about double - assuming you have the driving talent.
<strong>What do you think I (as a high school senior) would enjoy more - racing my '83, or keeping it beautiful? Still paying off my car, but I have roughly $150 extra a week to burn and no license until January. So it's either keep it nice and drive it, or buy a daily beater and race it.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
As Ian said, don't even consider racing a car you're still paying for. Some have done it, but that's a dangerous propositon.
[quote]Originally posted by Red 944:
<strong>1)How much do you think it would cost to race prep my car? (to enter) (to be decent) (to win)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know about PCA stock classes, but in 944 Cup, 944 Spec or SCCA ITS if you want to win you'd better figure on an absolute minimum of $10k to even think about winning and actually winning will likely cost about double - assuming you have the driving talent.
10-14-2002, 11:43 PM
#5
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also suggest that you go ge the PCA rulebook and then decide what you want to do. The PCA stock classes are great! The car wll be placed aginst cars of the same speed and performance. If you want to start getting into some more prepared classes then you might be ending up spending a lot of money. Also, you cant forget schools and DE's that you will need to complete to actually be able to race. It all adds up but its great fun! Remember, its pretty easy to get taken over while race preparing your car and not realize that it will bump you up into a higher class with cars that can spank you. Be careful and have fun!
~Dustin Wayman
~Dustin Wayman
10-14-2002, 11:53 PM
#6
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the replies
Sounds like I should put my extra bucks into paying it off. I have thought up a couple of more questions:
-Do I need a drivers license to drive my car at the track?
-What kinds of driving schools should I look at (New England), any particular names and / or classes?
-do driving schools supply cars for you? or do you have byo?
Sounds like I should put my extra bucks into paying it off. I have thought up a couple of more questions:
-Do I need a drivers license to drive my car at the track?
-What kinds of driving schools should I look at (New England), any particular names and / or classes?
-do driving schools supply cars for you? or do you have byo?
10-15-2002, 12:04 AM
#7
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Red 944:
<strong>-Do I need a drivers license to drive my car at the track?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
That depends upon the sanctioning body. The SCCA does. I would imagine the PCA does as well. But, there have been a number of sprint car drivers who were racing before they had a driver's license.
[quote]Originally posted by Red 944:
<strong>-What kinds of driving schools should I look at (New England), any particular names and / or classes?
-do driving schools supply cars for you? or do you have byo?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ah, now you are thinking good things.
In the northeast you have the Skippy school at Lime Rock Park (and other locations). You could go to Canada (where your money will go farther) and do either the Bridgestone School (used to be the Spenard-David Racing School) where you get to drive Reynard 86SF F2000 cars, or the Jim Russell school.
<strong>-Do I need a drivers license to drive my car at the track?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
That depends upon the sanctioning body. The SCCA does. I would imagine the PCA does as well. But, there have been a number of sprint car drivers who were racing before they had a driver's license.
[quote]Originally posted by Red 944:
<strong>-What kinds of driving schools should I look at (New England), any particular names and / or classes?
-do driving schools supply cars for you? or do you have byo?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ah, now you are thinking good things.
In the northeast you have the Skippy school at Lime Rock Park (and other locations). You could go to Canada (where your money will go farther) and do either the Bridgestone School (used to be the Spenard-David Racing School) where you get to drive Reynard 86SF F2000 cars, or the Jim Russell school.
Trending Topics
10-15-2002, 03:23 AM
#8
Advanced
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i was looking into racing my car with pca a while ago. i ended up doing my graduation project on the prep of my car. i came to the conclusion that it is freakin' expensive to be comptative with pca, even the stock classes. i took some spare money that i was going to use for wheels and bought a helmet instead. going to my first de in october, and i can't wait. (should be interesting on h rated tires though!)
if i were you, i would spend the money (if it really starts burning a hole in your pocket) on suspension. you need it to be competative anyway, and it will make your street experiance a bit more...entertaining.
i wish i would have gone that route instead of the safety equipment, not that i regret it at all.
take care
brian
if i were you, i would spend the money (if it really starts burning a hole in your pocket) on suspension. you need it to be competative anyway, and it will make your street experiance a bit more...entertaining.
i wish i would have gone that route instead of the safety equipment, not that i regret it at all.
take care
brian
10-15-2002, 03:06 PM
#9
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: houston
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Red -
Unless you have A LOT of financial backing from Dad, don't even think about trying to build your car into a race car. To put things in perspective, I would say that on average, a track weekend of club racing costs on the order of $1000. Entrance fees of $250, hotel for $100, 1/3 of a set of tires (figure 6 days/3 weekends per set) for $250, accrued maintenance on wear items on the car (pads and rotors, oil changes, brake fluid, etc) of ~$200, other misc $100. Even the "Cheap" stock class PCA racing is an expensive proposition. You'll end up needing a trailer to get the car home when it breaks down at the track (which it will), and a tow vehicle for the trailer. I would hazard to guess that most guys who do 10 weekends per year of track time (part racing, part DE's and lapping days) spend $8,000 to $15,000 per year, and have at least $50k tied up in car, trailer, tow vehicle (most probably have more like $100k+).
So, not to scare you away based just on $$, but even for those who make 6 figure salaries, racing is still very costly.
You say you don't have your license yet, but you want to start racing???? Once you get you lic and learn how do drive a car , then start by doing autoX. They are very cheap ($20 for a day), and get you some seat time on a track (albeit smaller) in a controlled environment. There you can start testing the limits of your car. The only equip you need for this is a helmet. I believe that as long as you have your license, you can run the PCA autoXs. Once you learn some things about car control, then move on to DE's. Join PCA, and I think even those under 18 can do DE's as long as you have parental consent. At the DE's all you need is a reliable, safe car, and a helmet. The "professional" racing schools are a good way to get intensified experience on the race track. You drive the schools own cars, and get great instruction. For these you do not need to have a license, but may need some special approval from the schools for them to let you in if you don't. These are not cheap, either, though. Figure about $1000/day for the schools usually either 2 or 3 days.
So, if I were you, I would work on making the 944 nice, but more importantly reliable!!! The last thing you want to be doing at the track is working on the car instead of driving it. So get the car 100% solid mechanically, and you'll be well on your way to enjoying your track time as you progress through the different "track levels"
BTW, I'm not some old fogy 60 y-o grandfather-type being a buzz kill, but actually a relatively young (<35) guy who went through the whole autoX/DE/Race school/PCA Racing process over the past 3 yrs.
Finally, why are you a Senior in HS but Don't have your license yet? Just curious, I thought in every state the driving age was 16 or 17.
Unless you have A LOT of financial backing from Dad, don't even think about trying to build your car into a race car. To put things in perspective, I would say that on average, a track weekend of club racing costs on the order of $1000. Entrance fees of $250, hotel for $100, 1/3 of a set of tires (figure 6 days/3 weekends per set) for $250, accrued maintenance on wear items on the car (pads and rotors, oil changes, brake fluid, etc) of ~$200, other misc $100. Even the "Cheap" stock class PCA racing is an expensive proposition. You'll end up needing a trailer to get the car home when it breaks down at the track (which it will), and a tow vehicle for the trailer. I would hazard to guess that most guys who do 10 weekends per year of track time (part racing, part DE's and lapping days) spend $8,000 to $15,000 per year, and have at least $50k tied up in car, trailer, tow vehicle (most probably have more like $100k+).
So, not to scare you away based just on $$, but even for those who make 6 figure salaries, racing is still very costly.
You say you don't have your license yet, but you want to start racing???? Once you get you lic and learn how do drive a car , then start by doing autoX. They are very cheap ($20 for a day), and get you some seat time on a track (albeit smaller) in a controlled environment. There you can start testing the limits of your car. The only equip you need for this is a helmet. I believe that as long as you have your license, you can run the PCA autoXs. Once you learn some things about car control, then move on to DE's. Join PCA, and I think even those under 18 can do DE's as long as you have parental consent. At the DE's all you need is a reliable, safe car, and a helmet. The "professional" racing schools are a good way to get intensified experience on the race track. You drive the schools own cars, and get great instruction. For these you do not need to have a license, but may need some special approval from the schools for them to let you in if you don't. These are not cheap, either, though. Figure about $1000/day for the schools usually either 2 or 3 days.
So, if I were you, I would work on making the 944 nice, but more importantly reliable!!! The last thing you want to be doing at the track is working on the car instead of driving it. So get the car 100% solid mechanically, and you'll be well on your way to enjoying your track time as you progress through the different "track levels"
BTW, I'm not some old fogy 60 y-o grandfather-type being a buzz kill, but actually a relatively young (<35) guy who went through the whole autoX/DE/Race school/PCA Racing process over the past 3 yrs.
Finally, why are you a Senior in HS but Don't have your license yet? Just curious, I thought in every state the driving age was 16 or 17.
10-15-2002, 07:23 PM
#10
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, thanks for the GREAT replies guys. Honestly, I feel like I know what I am going to do now.
txhedg - I have had my license, but not for the past couple of months and not until January. The 'system' deemed it necessary to take it away for 6 months.
I think I am going to keep my car pretty much the way it is, get it running right and take it to autox's like you said. I'd have to spend all my money to keep it running between events anyway. Any money I have left over, I'll bank until I have enough for a DE.
txhedg - I have had my license, but not for the past couple of months and not until January. The 'system' deemed it necessary to take it away for 6 months.
I think I am going to keep my car pretty much the way it is, get it running right and take it to autox's like you said. I'd have to spend all my money to keep it running between events anyway. Any money I have left over, I'll bank until I have enough for a DE.
10-15-2002, 11:55 PM
#12
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: houston
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote]Originally posted by Red 944:
<strong>
I have had my license, but not for the past couple of months and not until January. The 'system' deemed it necessary to take it away for 6 months.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
That damn system in mass.......i didn't realize thats where you were from. I grew up in the 'burbs west of boston (sudbury) and spent many a night ripping around the winding roads at insanely high speeds (old '78 Saab 99 GLE). In retrospect its suprising I never got busted or more likely killed. Luck of the draw, I guess. Take it easy on the street, and get your speed ya-yas out on the autoX and track.
cheers
<strong>
I have had my license, but not for the past couple of months and not until January. The 'system' deemed it necessary to take it away for 6 months.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
That damn system in mass.......i didn't realize thats where you were from. I grew up in the 'burbs west of boston (sudbury) and spent many a night ripping around the winding roads at insanely high speeds (old '78 Saab 99 GLE). In retrospect its suprising I never got busted or more likely killed. Luck of the draw, I guess. Take it easy on the street, and get your speed ya-yas out on the autoX and track.
cheers