easiest way to lose some weight.
10-13-2002, 10:02 PM
#1
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easiest way to lose some weight.
in my search for more power, i found out what everybody who has played wth a 944 engine has ever said. power don't come cheap with these motors. i'm in school and broke, so i figure i can take some stuff out to try and make it faster. what i really want is to get rid of the weight i added when i put my cage in. boy did i feel that it went in!
anyway, i need to drive this thing everyday, but i don't mind making some comprimises. removing the sound deadening is not worth 15 pounds to me right now, i remeber it being way loud. (i prepped the car for the cage and had everything behind the front seats out) the ac also must stay, i live in az, and while it's cool now, i hear the summers are a bitch. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
-sweat, not tears-
i don't think there's much i can do, but any thought would be appreciated.
peace
brian
anyway, i need to drive this thing everyday, but i don't mind making some comprimises. removing the sound deadening is not worth 15 pounds to me right now, i remeber it being way loud. (i prepped the car for the cage and had everything behind the front seats out) the ac also must stay, i live in az, and while it's cool now, i hear the summers are a bitch. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
-sweat, not tears-
i don't think there's much i can do, but any thought would be appreciated.
peace
brian
10-13-2002, 10:05 PM
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you've probably already thought of this but i'm gonna state the obvious anyway. what about the spare? if u dont mind calling for a tow truck when u get a flat. i've also removed my back seats since hardly anyone can fit back there anyway
10-13-2002, 10:20 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Lexan hatch and windows will knock off quite a bit. Add a fiberglass hood....
These things do get costly. What is your goal with the car?
Alan
These things do get costly. What is your goal with the car?
Alan
10-13-2002, 11:44 PM
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What kind of cage do you have, is it just a bar, or is it a true cage? I am new to Porsches and I know they are much better built and usually in much better shape than the cars that I'm used to, but I have never heard of a car slowing down with the installation of a roll bar. Even with the extra weight, they usually speed up due to increased rigidity in the chassis.
As far as losing weight, again I am new to Porsches, but I would imagine that it is about the same as in any other car, its just a matter of how much you are willing to give up. From what I have seen an 8 pt bar is usually ~100 lbs, so if you are wanting to make up the weight, I suppose thats around what you need to lose. Tossing the seats for (uncomfortable) fiberglass seats will prolly save you a few (I'm not sure how much the stock seats are, but they couldnt be as light as racing buckets). Ditch all the power accessories you can tolerate living without. If you have a little money to spend, a lighter wheel/tire combo could help handling and cut down on rotating weight. When building a car purely for light weight (and I dont recommend this) lots of people replace bumper brackets/shocks with aluminum brackets. I could go on for a while. Pretty much just figure out what you want from the car, and give up everything you dont absolutely need.
As far as losing weight, again I am new to Porsches, but I would imagine that it is about the same as in any other car, its just a matter of how much you are willing to give up. From what I have seen an 8 pt bar is usually ~100 lbs, so if you are wanting to make up the weight, I suppose thats around what you need to lose. Tossing the seats for (uncomfortable) fiberglass seats will prolly save you a few (I'm not sure how much the stock seats are, but they couldnt be as light as racing buckets). Ditch all the power accessories you can tolerate living without. If you have a little money to spend, a lighter wheel/tire combo could help handling and cut down on rotating weight. When building a car purely for light weight (and I dont recommend this) lots of people replace bumper brackets/shocks with aluminum brackets. I could go on for a while. Pretty much just figure out what you want from the car, and give up everything you dont absolutely need.
10-14-2002, 12:28 AM
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hey there, thanks for the replys guys. sorry this is kind of a long post.
i postged this and went out to my car to see what i could do. then i took a ride sans the spare and rear interior peices. i left the rear quarter trim in because its almost impossible to remove by yourself and it's too much work for a few ounces.
it's really not as loud as i remember. quite livable in fact. anybody out there running with out the forward stuff? how unbearable is it. i've decided to keep the rear stuff out, but it looks ugly back there now. i want to spray it but can't think of anything that will go well with gold except black which is out of the question. my next thought was light grey, but definatly not white. *hurls at the thought*
i have a six point cage and my estimate is about seventy pounds. what i meant earlier, is that i felt the weight in a straight line, and up the many hills of washington.
deffinatly not ready for racing shells. mainly because of comfort, but the fact that my new recaros are only six months old is a big factor too.
so now i have to decide if i want to take the front carpet out.
i was thinking about removing the power stuff, but it was costly. to replace the power windows, you would essentialy have to replace the doors with those from a 924. can live without the power windows, can't live with the cost of respraying the doors right now.
i also wanted to replace the sunroof crap with the stuff from a 924. mine only tilts anyway. the people i talked with however said it was impossible because the roof section of the body is a bit different. i would still like to see for my self though.
anybody know where i can pick up a light weight battery?
thanks guy
brian
i postged this and went out to my car to see what i could do. then i took a ride sans the spare and rear interior peices. i left the rear quarter trim in because its almost impossible to remove by yourself and it's too much work for a few ounces.
it's really not as loud as i remember. quite livable in fact. anybody out there running with out the forward stuff? how unbearable is it. i've decided to keep the rear stuff out, but it looks ugly back there now. i want to spray it but can't think of anything that will go well with gold except black which is out of the question. my next thought was light grey, but definatly not white. *hurls at the thought*
i have a six point cage and my estimate is about seventy pounds. what i meant earlier, is that i felt the weight in a straight line, and up the many hills of washington.
deffinatly not ready for racing shells. mainly because of comfort, but the fact that my new recaros are only six months old is a big factor too.
so now i have to decide if i want to take the front carpet out.
i was thinking about removing the power stuff, but it was costly. to replace the power windows, you would essentialy have to replace the doors with those from a 924. can live without the power windows, can't live with the cost of respraying the doors right now.
i also wanted to replace the sunroof crap with the stuff from a 924. mine only tilts anyway. the people i talked with however said it was impossible because the roof section of the body is a bit different. i would still like to see for my self though.
anybody know where i can pick up a light weight battery?
thanks guy
brian
10-14-2002, 12:38 AM
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On the comment about the bar, I was actually refering to straight line acceleration (in the past I havn't worried about taking turns). On cars I have done (old cars) you could remove some sound deadener and keep the carpet (this may be what you meant). Personally, I wouldnt drive a car without carpet just to save the weight (the noise doesnt bother me, but carpet doesnt weigh that much considering how much better it makes the car look imho). Have you considered giving up P/S and P/B? What about blocking the headlights off so that they stay up all the time? I'm sure I will think of more after I actually own one of these cars and can go outside and look at it.
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10-14-2002, 12:39 AM
#8
Race Car
Still have the top of the back seat in there? I'll bet it's even more useless with the cage and IIRC weight about 70 lbs. For paint, how 'bout a non-metallic gold (read; tan).
10-14-2002, 12:51 AM
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fiberglass panels will get you there quick brian. Very little prep work needed for painting and you can start with the hood and sunroof for not that much money. painting shouldn't cost that much since you can do all needed prep work yourself. Look into it. It just might surprise you. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
10-14-2002, 12:58 AM
#11
Nordschleife Master
[quote]Originally posted by Dave:
<strong>Still have the top of the back seat in there? I'll bet it's even more useless with the cage and IIRC weight about 70 lbs. For paint, how 'bout a non-metallic gold (read; tan).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nah...its ~30lbs for the tops of the rear seats I believe...
That's for split seats anyway, may be more for the non-split seats...
<strong>Still have the top of the back seat in there? I'll bet it's even more useless with the cage and IIRC weight about 70 lbs. For paint, how 'bout a non-metallic gold (read; tan).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nah...its ~30lbs for the tops of the rear seats I believe...
That's for split seats anyway, may be more for the non-split seats...
10-14-2002, 01:23 AM
#12
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by squzzy:
<strong>anybody know where i can pick up a light weight battery?</strong><hr></blockquote>
<a href="http://www.westcobattery.com/miata.html" target="_blank">http://www.westcobattery.com/miata.html</a>
Great batteries. True drycell so they can be mounted in any orientation, including on their side. Should fit a 944 just fine on its side.
<strong>anybody know where i can pick up a light weight battery?</strong><hr></blockquote>
<a href="http://www.westcobattery.com/miata.html" target="_blank">http://www.westcobattery.com/miata.html</a>
Great batteries. True drycell so they can be mounted in any orientation, including on their side. Should fit a 944 just fine on its side.
10-14-2002, 02:06 AM
#13
Some suggestions... first, if you can, try to remove weight thats above the center of gravity on the car, as it makes a bigger difference in how the car feels than if its removed down low. Secondly, weight removed from reciprocating parts makes a bigger difference that from static (non turning) parts. Thirdly, weight removed from the front of the car is better than weight removed from the rear of the car.
A fiberglass hood, if you can swing it, will save you around 40 or so lbs. Next, as suggested, remove the top of the rear seat, that's good for 30 lbs. The power sunroof parts can be removed and save around 15 lbs from the top of the car, or about 30 total if you replace the sunroof with a fiberglass panel. Power hatch release and rear window wiper can be removed for an additional 8 lbs. And the biggie, a lexan rear window will save you around 60 lbs, altho its not the most practical thing for a street car, as they scratch very easily and don't have great optical properties (based on my experience with ONE Lexan window, ymmv). Some of those suggestions are obviously not low buck intems, either, but all remove weight from the top of the car. Another suggestion is to move the battery to the right rear storage area (behind the right rear wheel) as that lowers the center of gravity AND puts weight at the lightest point of the car.
Spare tire is good for 25 lbs (with the jack and tire inflator) but it's a drag when you have a flat.
Look for lighter wheel/tire combinations, that will make the car feel MUCH more lively. I found some Enkei wheels that look like BBS's and weight about 5lbs less per wheel than my phone dials and seem to be just as strong (they have taken some pretty good poundings from me and are doing fine). That one change made a HUGE difference. Weight off the crank and flywheel make a similar difference, altho low speed idle suffers and makes the car a PITA on the street, and isn't cheap either.
Clean front fenders don't weight much more than fiberglass ones and are a lot stronger, so I would suggest ridding yourself of any sound proofing front of the firewall for additional weight savings of around 10 lbs or so. The sound proofing around the interior compartment will save you an additional 30 lbs, but makes the car much less comfortable to travel in due to increased noise. Also, lighter "racing" seats can save you considerable weight (up to 40 lbs total if you have power seats), but choose carefully if comfort on long drives is a consideration. Also, if comfort isn't a prime consideration, eliminating the AC system will save you around 40 lbs or so.
A stainless steel exhaust system will save you around 8-10 lbs over stock system, and a cat bypass will eliminate the 20 or so lbs the cat adds.
Last suggestion for now... you can replace the front bumper mounts with aluminum mounts for another 20 lbs saving, altho I wouldn't suggest this on a street driven car as you can never tell when some moron is going to run into you.
All these things make a pretty big weight reduction, however, it also makes your car considerably less comfortable on the street. Its also not real cheap to do a lot of those things.
Good luck!
Scott
A fiberglass hood, if you can swing it, will save you around 40 or so lbs. Next, as suggested, remove the top of the rear seat, that's good for 30 lbs. The power sunroof parts can be removed and save around 15 lbs from the top of the car, or about 30 total if you replace the sunroof with a fiberglass panel. Power hatch release and rear window wiper can be removed for an additional 8 lbs. And the biggie, a lexan rear window will save you around 60 lbs, altho its not the most practical thing for a street car, as they scratch very easily and don't have great optical properties (based on my experience with ONE Lexan window, ymmv). Some of those suggestions are obviously not low buck intems, either, but all remove weight from the top of the car. Another suggestion is to move the battery to the right rear storage area (behind the right rear wheel) as that lowers the center of gravity AND puts weight at the lightest point of the car.
Spare tire is good for 25 lbs (with the jack and tire inflator) but it's a drag when you have a flat.
Look for lighter wheel/tire combinations, that will make the car feel MUCH more lively. I found some Enkei wheels that look like BBS's and weight about 5lbs less per wheel than my phone dials and seem to be just as strong (they have taken some pretty good poundings from me and are doing fine). That one change made a HUGE difference. Weight off the crank and flywheel make a similar difference, altho low speed idle suffers and makes the car a PITA on the street, and isn't cheap either.
Clean front fenders don't weight much more than fiberglass ones and are a lot stronger, so I would suggest ridding yourself of any sound proofing front of the firewall for additional weight savings of around 10 lbs or so. The sound proofing around the interior compartment will save you an additional 30 lbs, but makes the car much less comfortable to travel in due to increased noise. Also, lighter "racing" seats can save you considerable weight (up to 40 lbs total if you have power seats), but choose carefully if comfort on long drives is a consideration. Also, if comfort isn't a prime consideration, eliminating the AC system will save you around 40 lbs or so.
A stainless steel exhaust system will save you around 8-10 lbs over stock system, and a cat bypass will eliminate the 20 or so lbs the cat adds.
Last suggestion for now... you can replace the front bumper mounts with aluminum mounts for another 20 lbs saving, altho I wouldn't suggest this on a street driven car as you can never tell when some moron is going to run into you.
All these things make a pretty big weight reduction, however, it also makes your car considerably less comfortable on the street. Its also not real cheap to do a lot of those things.
Good luck!
Scott
10-14-2002, 03:03 AM
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thanks again guys for the help. i removed everything earlier tonight and it down to the bare metal behind the front seats. since i got my cage in, the top of the rear seats haven't been in because it wouldn't fit.
i was actually thinking about tan, that's the color of my carpet currently. i think that would look decient even though it would be the metal. the look of it would be the only reason i would leave the carpet in. but the more i think about it the better i feel about it. and it's good to get a second opinion from someone i haven't talked to about it. it makes me feel like it's a viable option. also, i was thinking that grey would look like crap against my brown dash.
as much as i would like to do all that cool stuff you guys are talking about, i really don't have the cash right now. oh well, give me a year until i'm out of school.
i have been thinking about a lexan hatch, the one from gt racin actually. i bet it would be pretty easy to put a hole in it for the wiper, because i use that, i don't care about the defrost. but i have heard that they scratch easily which would rule out the wiper. but that's pie in the sky for now.
about the wheels, i was thinking about twist knock offs, but i read in a thread here that they were even heavier than stock. can you get any wheel manufacturer to make wheels in our bolt pattern, i was under the impression that that was a big limiting factor. i saw adapters on ebay, but i'm sceptical becaus i will be using this car for the track.
take care guys and thanks again
brian
i was actually thinking about tan, that's the color of my carpet currently. i think that would look decient even though it would be the metal. the look of it would be the only reason i would leave the carpet in. but the more i think about it the better i feel about it. and it's good to get a second opinion from someone i haven't talked to about it. it makes me feel like it's a viable option. also, i was thinking that grey would look like crap against my brown dash.
as much as i would like to do all that cool stuff you guys are talking about, i really don't have the cash right now. oh well, give me a year until i'm out of school.
i have been thinking about a lexan hatch, the one from gt racin actually. i bet it would be pretty easy to put a hole in it for the wiper, because i use that, i don't care about the defrost. but i have heard that they scratch easily which would rule out the wiper. but that's pie in the sky for now.
about the wheels, i was thinking about twist knock offs, but i read in a thread here that they were even heavier than stock. can you get any wheel manufacturer to make wheels in our bolt pattern, i was under the impression that that was a big limiting factor. i saw adapters on ebay, but i'm sceptical becaus i will be using this car for the track.
take care guys and thanks again
brian
10-14-2002, 03:48 PM
#15
Race Director
Brian, What are you intentions with car?
The reason I as is that you have Normally aspirated with a roll cage looking to remove weight. Sounds to me like race car or mean autocross car. My race car is about 2450 lbs ( about as light as you can go without go to fiberglass). It still not fast in a straight line. Fast in the corners. Honestly it sound like you have done all you can to make fast street car. Unless you are looking at a streetable track car it not worth it to go farther as you have reached the point of dimishing returns.
It if you are looking for a race/autocross car remember the implications of you modifications. For 944-spec racing <a href="http://944-spec.com" target="_blank">(944-Spec.com)</a> requires steel body panels, and glass windows a miniumn weight of 2600 with driver which I just meet. 944-spec is based in Phoenix and at the PCA autocross yesterday we had 5 944 spec cars running. Even if you don't want to race you can perp your car per these rules and have cars to run with at the Local Autocross.
BTW my spec car is not registered for the street, but that as done by my choice not by any need to be competitive. 80% of the cars have plates now.
The reason I as is that you have Normally aspirated with a roll cage looking to remove weight. Sounds to me like race car or mean autocross car. My race car is about 2450 lbs ( about as light as you can go without go to fiberglass). It still not fast in a straight line. Fast in the corners. Honestly it sound like you have done all you can to make fast street car. Unless you are looking at a streetable track car it not worth it to go farther as you have reached the point of dimishing returns.
It if you are looking for a race/autocross car remember the implications of you modifications. For 944-spec racing <a href="http://944-spec.com" target="_blank">(944-Spec.com)</a> requires steel body panels, and glass windows a miniumn weight of 2600 with driver which I just meet. 944-spec is based in Phoenix and at the PCA autocross yesterday we had 5 944 spec cars running. Even if you don't want to race you can perp your car per these rules and have cars to run with at the Local Autocross.
BTW my spec car is not registered for the street, but that as done by my choice not by any need to be competitive. 80% of the cars have plates now.