Hello,
I have an 83 944 NA and have been looking to upgrade. I was thinking about a 951. I was, however, recently offered an 88 928. I have not inspected it yet but I wanted to get some discussion of the relative merits of each.
I have done an engine rebuild on my 944 and I work on my own car. I am somewhat reticent about learning a whole new system. The 944 is relatively inexpensive to work on and fix if you do the work yourself. Is the 928 the same?
Does it have a great deal of issues or would it be a reliable daily driver. I have been very happy with my 944 but would like a little more power to play with and have always admired the 928. Just wish I could afford a GT model. :-)
Thanks,

Bryan
Federal Way, Wa

 

I'll qualify my answer by saying that I don't own a 928 and have never worked on one but I have heard working on 928 in the tight confines of it's engine compartment described as "a tower of pain". For what it's worth I guess my 951 could also be described as such in comparison to the relative simplicity and ease of working on say a na 911.

$0.02

 

doesn't "reticent" mean quiet or secretive?

as for the 928 it's sweet but i think production volumes were quite low compared to the 951 and so parts will just be that much more expensive and difficult to get.

 

You really should post this question to BOTH this board and the 928 board(apologies if you already have).

I've also thought about upgrading to a 928. I never was really much of a fan of thebody until I recently have seen several with he 18" Twist wheels. These drammatically improve the look of the car in my opinion.

The 928 is quite a different "style" of car than the 951 though. It is a true GT car and I would not say that the 951 was intended to meet those expectations.

My wrench loves the 928 but says the wiring is a nightmare and to RUN from any 928 that has had an unknowledgeable garden-variety installer put in a stereo system or remote lock alarm system in them. He charges 4hrs ($240) min to diagnose electrical problems in them.

 

Bryan,

I guess that it all depends on what you are looking for. I am going through a similar situation right now(see my post--"joining the opposition"). The 951 is more of a "sports" car, in that it feels more nimble, and is more attuned to the track(not saying they are not great daily drivers). The 928 is more of a "GT", built for comfortable, speedy, long distance hauls. It is very well appointed with options, the interiors are more plush, the engine has more torque than a 951(comparitively).
The 951 has more options when it comes to upgrading, are somewhat cheaper for parts, and can be made into real screamers without breaking the bank(and breaking the bank, also).
That being said, the 928 is well the 928--former flagship, former 80K machine. Issues to watch on 928S4's--steering rack, A/C, torque tube, make sure all acc. work--electrical gremlins are common--windshield washer systems--believe it or not, and is it an auto. or a 5 spd?(5 spds are rarer, but I have been told, the autos are more reliable). Run a carfax, as 928 odometers are fairly easy to tamper with.
I really like the 928 and have looked at a few(but I also really like the 951, 911, 931, and 924). If the car checks out and the price is right--go for it--or at least post the info. here so others can act . Good Luck.

 

Well to start:

ret·i·cent Pronunciation Key (rt-snt)
adj.
1. Inclined to keep one's thoughts, feelings, and personal affairs to oneself. See Synonyms at silent.
2. Restrained or reserved in style.
3. Reluctant; unwilling.

Was going with definition number 3.
I have posted to the 928 board also. I would expect the parts to be much more and as for wiring. Mine is already a nightmare. Think someone rewired it and in some cases did a poor job of it. Not very many of the wires match the diagrams for color or location.
Anyway, I have a good mech whose prices for parts (944 anyway) are very reasonable. I was also worried about having to learn and understand the turbo aspects of the 951. I am good mechanically but when it comes to the electronics I just dont have the patience or base knowledge to affect repairs very well. Makes no sense for someone in the computer field huh?

Bryan

 

I'd love to own a 928, especially post-87. They are more complex, more stuff to go wrong, and spendier to fix when they go south. But they are about as sweet a car as was ever built.

Thaddeus

 

Bryan, your quest may be a difficult one.

I suggest you read some 928 sites before you settle info the (understandably) more comfortable mode of buying the 951.

The 88 928 that you are looking at - is it an auto or manual? How many miles does ithave? How much is it being sold for?

A 951 is cheap track car, that you can make nice for the street. The 928 is an expensive street car that can be made very mean for the track.

I personally have owned a 944 (well - 924S - but same thing) and now own a 928S4 5spd. (89)
The car is my perfect idea of what I wanted. That is not for everybody, and the market for upgrading the 928 is not as large as it is for the 951. That is amajor draw back.
If you have worked on your 944 with success, and were not overwhelmed, then the 928 willbe fine. Lots of info on the web, as you can see on my links below.

The 928 seems no more difficult to work on than the 924S I had. Its more complexm but I think its intuitive. A modded 951 WILL beat me - but only aftera certain speed. Some will tell you the 928 is too heavy. Heavier than what? Heavier than a 951 - yes. The torque is addicting.
If you wanted alot moreinfo, ask this question on the 928 board- many have both cars.

Here are some links:

<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/" target="_blank">http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/</a>

<a href="http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm</a>

<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/v1uhoh/" target="_blank">http://members.rennlist.com/v1uhoh/</a>

<a href="http://sis125.berkeley.edu/928.html" target="_blank">http://sis125.berkeley.edu/928.html</a>

<a href="http://www.devek.net" target="_blank">www.devek.net</a>
<a href="http://www.928.cc" target="_blank">www.928.cc</a>
<a href="http://www.928intl.com" target="_blank">www.928intl.com</a>

 

If you don't like working on electrics / electronics, I'd think long and hard about a 928. One trip into the electrical system of an '87 was enough to give me the *******... makes a 944 or even my 968 look pretty tame. The fuse / relay panel is big, and dam' crowded.

Fortunately, it belonged to a lady friend, and she wasn't particularly reticent about expressing her thanks... ... memories, memories...

Jim, dang, I hate it when I drool in my beard...

 

Jim,

Once again, you kill me <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

Is it time for the hockey game yet?? <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

 

The 928 I am looking at is an 88 928 with auto transmission (would like a stick but dont see them often). Has about 85k miles. Selling for around $7000. Seems low but the owner is upgrading to a Carrera and wants it to go to a prior porsche owner. Seems to be in good condition. Inside and out. Will drive it on Friday and do compression and check all that I can. Unfortunately like I said I am lacking in the electronics diag side of things. Then comes the two other tests. Will go through a PPI and then my wife will drive it. She loves the handling of the 944 but thinks it harder to drive than her BMW. If she likes it then I may buy it or keep looking. Were the S, S2, and S4 models the same or more problematic?

Bryan

 

I need to post again to comment on some statements. Info I give is all fist hand.

Dan Wrote:
[quote]My wrench loves the 928 but says the wiring is a nightmare and to RUN from any 928 that has had an unknowledgeable garden-variety installer put in a stereo system or remote lock alarm system in them. He charges 4hrs ($240) min to diagnose electrical problems in them. <hr></blockquote>

Dan, you are right. The stereo installations, even when done right can essentiall cause the car to go haywire (no pun). My car (89 - 5spd) had a aemi-good instalation done, but I still fine stupidity. unhooked wires, bad leads. Electrical problems, especially on the early cars can usually be traced to bad grounds, and bad connections. That may seem to be an obvious statement, but look harder. The car has alot of "stuff", so there will be more wiring. Not all the cars do though. If you buy the right example, you will have no issues in that area.

Eric wrote:
[quote]Bryan,
...The 951 is more of a "sports" car, in that it feels more nimble, and is more attuned to the track(not saying they are not great daily drivers). The 951 has more options when it comes to upgrading, are somewhat cheaper for parts,
Issues to watch on 928S4's--steering rack, A/C, torque tube, make sure all acc. work--electrical gremlins are common--windshield washer systems--believe it or not, and is it an auto. or a 5 spd?(5 spds are rarer, but I have been told, the autos are more reliable). <hr></blockquote>

Again true, but with a few caveats. Drive a 928 with a new or somewhat workedon suspension, and it will handle so much better you will be astonished. Because of its weight, it is classed differently, but a few are driven in serious races against million dollar rides, and do VERY well. Parts may not be cheaper than a 951 in all cases. OEM parts are OEM parts. Just don't get one with a bad inerior. $$$$. AC issues are related to simple relays, and usually some kind of vaccum leak in the dasj. There are many little servo-things that control vaccum routing for all the different vents. I went through mine in two days. No more leaks, works great - 45 bucks in parts. The torque tubes are only issues on the autos. Two bearings instead of three on the manuals as I recall. The autos (87+) have thrust bearing failures. Transmission moves the main shaft against the crank, and the engine blows up. Bad news. Easy to check for. Clutch work is EASIER than on a 951, as there is no need to remove the trans. 5spds are RARE (my 89 is even rarer because of the number made in 89) but the post 85(?) i think 5spds are NOT less reliable than the autos. They are very good indeed. A different shift pattern keep some away. It make it difficult to go bettween basic H pattern cars, and the dogleg first on the 928. ButI don't need any other cars with my 89. (well, I have an 81 auto)

I have littel else to say, unless questions are asked. Its difficult to compare this apple to that orange. Different cars totally. Do a search. I could swear people have done long dissertations on the comparrison between the two. I was between the 928, the 930 and a 951. I ended up with a black/tan 5spd. 89 with 37k from texas.
Currently, I am planning on boosting it with turbos are a SC. The 928 likes superchargers. Space is an issue, but then we could keep up with you modded 951s. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

HTH. Email me of you have any questions:
brenclare@worldnet.att.net

 

..CHECK that car out. 7k for an 88 with 85 K is low. If it does check out, BUY it and SELL it right away. Make some money. Then do as you please. But check it out, and don't believe stories. Does he have any reciepts for work?
Crap - if I wasn't buying a house soon, then I would buy that car, even if it did have issues.


{QUOTE]Seems to be in good condition. Inside and out. Will drive it on Friday and do compression and check all that I can. [/QUOTE]

There is a site with a PPI checklist. Damn if I can find it. Ask on the 928 board. Its really good.

[quote]Were the S, S2, and S4 models the same or more problematic? <hr></blockquote>

The earlier you go, you will have different problems. You really need to check out some internet sites for this detailed info. there ar epages and pages of differences between each car and year. I don't even know everything changed on my car for my year.

 

Bryan,

Holy cow---7,000 for an 88 S4. If the car is right, buy it right there. However, I feel there may be problems lurking if the price is so low(most I have seen are 15,000-18,000). FYI, there were no "S2" 928s. The 928 "S" was available in the States beginning in 83, bumped HP, added a small rear spoiler, flat-"dish" wheels, In 86--actually I think 86.5--was the next "major" change--increaded HP, revised tranny(manual and auto.) In 87, the car became the "S4" and appearance was altered(new nose, tailight treatment, flat deck spoiler)which continued untill 90 when it became the GTS(auto.) or GT(5 spd.). Eventually all became "GT"--I think.
Of course, each new designation saw increased HP, along with other changes in wheels, brakes, clutches (from 2-disk to 1), autos.(from 3 spd. to 4 spd.), available options, #valves per cylinder, and probab;ly a few other things. So, thoroughly confused yet?--If not, I will try harder .

 

just briefly reading that post, here's what I have to say.

I had an '83 944, I went w/ a 951, couldn't be happier, it's my absolute dream car, and it's awsome. It's like having a totally mutated 944 into something nasty beyond your wildest dreams. I've heard 928's are maintanence hazards... You already will know alot of the basics of the 951 since you had a 944. All I got for ya...