Jesus H. Christ. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

I have tried to be patient. I have tried to persuade Bryan to look at other sources, and ONLY believe FIRST HAND knowledge with respect to different cars. I hope you will Bryan.

Now:

In 87, the car became the "S4" and appearance was altered(new nose, tailight treatment, flat deck spoiler)which continued untill 90 when it became the GTS(auto.) or GT(5 spd.). Eventually all became "GT"--I think. [/QUOTE]

JESUS! Please give correct info if you are going to volunteer it.
The years 87, 88, 89, 90, and 91 had S4s available. In the years 87-89, they could be had in auto or 5spd. form. Now, in the years 90 and 91, the S4 was ONLY an auto. ONLY. NO 5spds. SEPARATLEY, there is the GT, made in the years 89, 90, and 91. (89 being a "prototype" sort of thing - very rare - different computers, heads, etc)
The GTS was the last iteration of the vehicle, and it was made ONLY in 93, 94, 95. These were again available in auto or 5spd.
Again, please check sources, and don't believe everything readon a list board - yes, even, if you wish, what *I* write. I invite all to verify.

...Things improve a bit....

[/QUOTE]Of course, each new designation saw increased HP, along with other changes in wheels, brakes, clutches (from 2-disk to 1), autos.(from 3 spd. to 4 spd.), available options, #valves per cylinder, and probab;ly a few other things. So, thoroughly confused yet?--If not, I will try harder.[/QUOTE]

The ONLY reaosn hemay be confused is because you are giving him incorrect, ill-researched info.
I have to say, in all fairnes,s that your last bit of hearsay was, in form, correct.
Again, without trying to offend, please check your info.


[quote]*WiZaRD- .... something nasty beyond your wildest dreams. I've heard 928's are maintanence hazards...<hr></blockquote>

...And I have heard 951s blow up, and they are all back-assed and run down. if I heard it, does that make it true? "Maintenance Hazards" are made by previous owners, not the vehicle itself. Within Reason.

Thanks for reading, and remember to check sources, and find first hand knowledge.
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

 

I do intend to check all available sources of info. The broad outline should suffice in many cases when talking about history. Did not mean to start a fight.
I am working on gettign the vin so I will know exactly what the car is. The guy I talked to said it was an S model but did not get to talk and elaborate as he was at work and had to go. My question about the S was meant to see if I could identify what he meant by S. Whether series 2 or an actual S4. Find it hard to believe that something that doesnt look like it was falling apart and was only 7k could be an S4.
But stranger things have been known to happen.
Hopefully I can get lucky. Owned my 944 for 5 years and all I heard from others was the maintenance problems and the expense that P-cars are. In five years I had no major problems till July and I replaced the head gasket and everything is fine. Less than 1500 dollars over five years into the car does not strike me as a maintenance nightmare. Shows what ford drivers know. I have faith in the quality of the car itself and believe that if taken care of they are less hassle than american. I have yet to be disabused. Hopefully my theory also applies to the 928 model. I hope so.

Bryan

 

Jesus H. Christ. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

I have tried to be patient. I have tried to persuade Bryan to look at other sources, and ONLY believe FIRST HAND knowledge with respect to different cars. I hope you will Bryan.

Now:

In 87, the car became the "S4" and appearance was altered(new nose, tailight treatment, flat deck spoiler)which continued untill 90 when it became the GTS(auto.) or GT(5 spd.). Eventually all became "GT"--I think. [/QUOTE]

JESUS! Please give correct info if you are going to volunteer it.
The years 87, 88, 89, 90, and 91 had S4s available. In the years 87-89, they could be had in auto or 5spd. form. Now, in the years 90 and 91, the S4 was ONLY an auto. ONLY. NO 5spds. SEPARATLEY, there is the GT, made in the years 89, 90, and 91. (89 being a "prototype" sort of thing - very rare - different computers, heads, etc)
The GTS was the last iteration of the vehicle, and it was made ONLY in 93, 94, 95. These were again available in auto or 5spd.
Again, please check sources, and don't believe everything readon a list board - yes, even, if you wish, what *I* write. I invite all to verify.

...Things improve a bit....

[/QUOTE]Of course, each new designation saw increased HP, along with other changes in wheels, brakes, clutches (from 2-disk to 1), autos.(from 3 spd. to 4 spd.), available options, #valves per cylinder, and probab;ly a few other things. So, thoroughly confused yet?--If not, I will try harder.[/QUOTE]

The ONLY reaosn hemay be confused is because you are giving him incorrect, ill-researched info.
I have to say, in all fairnes,s that your last bit of hearsay was, in form, correct.
Again, without trying to offend, please check your info.


[quote]*WiZaRD- .... something nasty beyond your wildest dreams. I've heard 928's are maintanence hazards...<hr></blockquote>

...And I have heard 951s blow up, and they are all back-assed and run down. if I heard it, does that make it true? "Maintenance Hazards" are made by previous owners, not the vehicle itself. Within Reason.

Thanks for reading, and remember to check sources, and find first hand knowledge.
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

 

Brendan,

Calm down, deep breaths. Re-check my post. None of this was to be taken as gospel, hence the "I think". I know my model designations get iffy towards the end (90 onwards,) but you have cleared things up nicely. Heresay?? I have thouroughly researched 928s(mainly the 86.5-88) and although I don't have information here in front of me, I can bring it in tomorrow and write up a nice 10 page essay on the model differences from the introduction of the 928 in 1978 through the modern day. I am pretty sure he was referring to "S2" model designation ala 944, not " series 2" cars. I am not trying to spread false information, but thanks for "straightening me out".

PS I don't think you said "Jesus" enough in your post

 

I did a double post. I don't know how. Sorry.
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />


[quote]
I do intend to check all available sources of info. The broad outline should suffice in many cases when talking about history. Did not mean to start a fight. <hr></blockquote>

No fight, just making sure info that is passed out is correct.

[quote]The guy I talked to said it was an S model but did not get to talk and elaborate as he was at work and had to go. My question about the S was meant to see if I could identify what he meant by S. Whether series 2 or an actual S4. Find it hard to believe that something that doesnt look like it was falling apart and was only 7k could be an S4.<hr></blockquote>

Barring strange occurances, this is probably an S model instead of an S4. The 7k seems to fall info perspective alot more. Depending on condition, it may still be a good buy.

<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

 

Eric Wrote:
[quote]
Brendan,
Calm down, deep breaths. <hr></blockquote>

*Holding stomach* - HEEEHEEE, WHOOOOO, HEEEEHEEE WHOOO.
(Lamaas [sic] classes for my pregnant wife help us all....

[quote]I know my model designations get iffy towards the end (90 onwards,) but you have cleared things up nicely. Heresay?? I have thouroughly researched 928s(mainly the 86.5-88) and although I don't have information here in front of me, I can bring it in tomorrow and write up a nice 10 page essay on the model differences from the introduction of the 928 in 1978 through the modern day.<hr></blockquote>

....Or better yet, you could do that and send it to Bryan. God that name is hard to type for some reason. I also like the word Heresay. Not as fun as reticent, but nowhere near the class of "Shadenfreude"....


[quote]I am pretty sure he was referring to "S2" model designation ala 944, not " series 2" cars. I am not trying to spread false information, but thanks for "straightening me out". <hr></blockquote>

...YEAH! And don't you forget it!
We are all, as my english wife says, "Bent as a nine-bob-note" ....Whatever that means.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />


[quote]PS I don't think you said "Jesus" enough in your post. <hr></blockquote>

...Ah. Jesus. Such an good term to use. It can convey frustration, and at the same time, it can illicite a form of *sigh* from the reader. As in a deep breath before a treatis.

Anyway, good stuff. All in the quest for knowledge. Bryan has posted on the 928 board, so he should do well there.
Now hard feelings Eric? Jesus.....

Purely Heresay,

 

Well, the 928 and 951 are really two different cars. For a daily driver I would pick the 928 hands down as it is much more of a GT car. More creature comforts, more useable power, etc. The 951 on the other hand has much more track potential in my opinion. I would also figure the 951 to be somewhat cheaper to maintain. The 928 engine is basically double a 944 and yes that usually means a little less than double the maintenance costs. Also keep in mind that the 928 was a very expensive car at the time of release and many of the parts are still priced high. However, if the car is in good condition at that price, I don't think I would turn it down.

 

I was waiting to get a copy of the article before I brought this up on the board, BUT given the current discussion it is kind of relavent.

A while back I happen to be thumbing through an old Road & Track and was reading the "15 yrs ago" column where they discuss the highlights of that month's issue 15 years earlier. The main review was of 4 GT cars; the 944na, 928s, 308gtbi (ferrari), and corvette. You may be (as I was) shocked to know that the winner of this subjective comparison was the 944na. I believe they credited the results with the 944's lack of faults or imperfections. Not bad for the smallest and cheapest of the bunch.

I know you are looking at a 951, butI could only imaging that the 951 would have made a joke of the others had it been available at the time.

I am trying to locate the back issue, once I do I will try and have the thing scanned.

 

Eric Wrote:
[quote]
Brendan,
Calm down, deep breaths. <hr></blockquote>

*Holding stomach* - HEEEHEEE, WHOOOOO, HEEEEHEEE WHOOO.
(Lamaas [sic] classes for my pregnant wife help us all....

[quote]I know my model designations get iffy towards the end (90 onwards,) but you have cleared things up nicely. Heresay?? I have thouroughly researched 928s(mainly the 86.5-88) and although I don't have information here in front of me, I can bring it in tomorrow and write up a nice 10 page essay on the model differences from the introduction of the 928 in 1978 through the modern day.<hr></blockquote>

....Or better yet, you could do that and send it to Bryan. God that name is hard to type for some reason. I also like the word Heresay. Not as fun as reticent, but nowhere near the class of "Shadenfreude"....


[quote]I am pretty sure he was referring to "S2" model designation ala 944, not " series 2" cars. I am not trying to spread false information, but thanks for "straightening me out". <hr></blockquote>

...YEAH! And don't you forget it!
We are all, as my english wife says, "Bent as a nine-bob-note" ....Whatever that means.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />


[quote]PS I don't think you said "Jesus" enough in your post. <hr></blockquote>

...Ah. Jesus. Such an good term to use. It can convey frustration, and at the same time, it can illicite a form of *sigh* from the reader. As in a deep breath before a treatis.

Anyway, good stuff. All in the quest for knowledge. Bryan has posted on the 928 board, so he should do well there.
Now hard feelings Eric? Jesus.....

Purely Heresay,

 

As as 12 year owner of 928s (first a 1986.5 928S AT, and now a 1990 928GT, which by definition is a 5 speed), I think I'm qualified to write about 928s.

First, if the routine maintenance is done properly, they are not significantly harder of more expensive to maintain than any other Porsche. In some cases, they are easier or less expensive to maintain. In other cases, they are not. Over the many years of 928 ownership, aside from an occasional blown fuse or bulb, I have had very few electrical problems. Of course, I only use a quality battery which is kept in tip-top shape.

Parts are a bit more costly than 944 parts, but not by much. Moreover, many of the 928 parts are more sturdily built in order to handle the increased weight and loads placed on them. In most cases, the parts are WAY over-built, which commonly results in fewer replacements. (Case-in-point; The 928 timing belt is rated to last 60k miles, versus 30k miles for the 944 timing belt. Also, most 928s have a T-belt tension warning system.)

I could go on and on about the pros and cons of the 928 series. However, many have covered these topics in huge detail. I suggest you read what other 928 owners have to say about their cars. I would not pay attention to anyone who has not owned one, even a mechanic who works on them. Keep in mind, he only gets to see them when the owner thinks there is a problem. He doesn't get to see them when they are running like a Rolex watch, which is most of the time. YMMV.

~ Merry motoring ~

 

Brendan,

No hard feelings. Being at work--sshhh--I was typing rapidly, and my brain became jumbled around the 1989-90 model years. I do have alot of info on primarily the 86.5-88 cars(the 928 is still on my possible-next-purchase short list--ideally an 86.5 with a five-speed). I was trying to strike some broad strokes over the major changes within the 928 line--83/86.5/87. We are all friends here in the Porsche world <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> .

That being said, time to leave for the hockey game--Go Pens.

 

As another 928 "S" owner (1985), I can only say that I've had no real problems with it other than difficulty finding aftermarket "upgrade" equipment. Because so many more 944 and 911s were produced, it figures that vendors will be able to sell enough stuff to profit. Since there were fewer 928s sold, fewer vendors cater to its market. If you aren't looking for indiglo dashboard indicators, no problem. For the same reason, the only real repair documentation that is available commercially are the Porsche Service Manuals ($375). Internet bulletin boards are still helpful even without the manuals.

I went for the 928 because it was INCREDIBLY comfortable over long (3hrs+) rides and was rare enough to turn heads. I've seen 3 other 928s in the past 6 months, and I like being special.

Whichever you choose, you'll still be ending up with an "older" car no longer in production. Maintenance will be needed from time to time...it's a fact. Driver them both and get the one you like best.

 

A lot of people have had various electrical problems in a 928. The reason for that is almost always because someone got in there and THOUGHT they knew what they were doing when working on something, did some stereo modification, installed an aftermarket alarm, cell phone, or something like that. If someone has done some of that kind of work in a 928, and actually DID know what they were doing, it shouldn't be anymore problematic than any other car. The same pretty much goes for any of the other mechanical stuff on the 928. If you repeatedly have problems with a car, and keep taking it back to a mechanic, do you think that he'll admit that he screwed up, or didn't know what he was doing, or that he'll say something to the effect that "these cars are always trouble"? I think that sort of thing is the basis for a lot of the misinformation about the 928. The other problem is with previous owners not having done maintenence. I don't care what kind of car it is, if stuff is broken or worn out, you won't be happy with it.

I'm not going to get into the whole automatic vs manual debate. Some people prefer one, some people prefer the other. I have an '88 S4 automatic, and am more than happy with it's performance compared to a manual. Some automatics have had the thrust bearing problem, but I really think it's pretty rare, and it can be avoided. The manual transmission cars have a ball cup that wears and pops off, and the hose for the clutch slave cylinder can go out. Which is more reliable? The one that's maintained properly. Torque tubes can go bad on either an automatic or a manual, and I don't know if there's really any difference in the rate of that occuring between the two.

I've had a couple of 951 owners drive my car. They were all pretty surprised. The most common comments were that when you stepped on it in the 928, there was power instantly, without the lag that was more prevelent in their cars. There's no waiting for boost or RPMs to build. The other thing said was that the 928 seemed to make that power with a lot less drama or effort. No high revs, nor needing to try and keep boost up during shifts, just step on it and go.

 

Thanks for comming into the discussion Mike, Dave, and Ed.

Everyone - listen to these guys, and look at thier star ratings. Though, I am unsure about how someone gets those votes.

 

Jesus H. Christ. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

I have tried to be patient. I have tried to persuade Bryan to look at other sources, and ONLY believe FIRST HAND knowledge with respect to different cars. I hope you will Bryan.

Now:

In 87, the car became the "S4" and appearance was altered(new nose, tailight treatment, flat deck spoiler)which continued untill 90 when it became the GTS(auto.) or GT(5 spd.). Eventually all became "GT"--I think. [/QUOTE]

JESUS! Please give correct info if you are going to volunteer it.
The years 87, 88, 89, 90, and 91 had S4s available. In the years 87-89, they could be had in auto or 5spd. form. Now, in the years 90 and 91, the S4 was ONLY an auto. ONLY. NO 5spds. SEPARATLEY, there is the GT, made in the years 89, 90, and 91. (89 being a "prototype" sort of thing - very rare - different computers, heads, etc)
The GTS was the last iteration of the vehicle, and it was made ONLY in 93, 94, 95. These were again available in auto or 5spd.
Again, please check sources, and don't believe everything readon a list board - yes, even, if you wish, what *I* write. I invite all to verify.

...Things improve a bit....

[/QUOTE]Of course, each new designation saw increased HP, along with other changes in wheels, brakes, clutches (from 2-disk to 1), autos.(from 3 spd. to 4 spd.), available options, #valves per cylinder, and probab;ly a few other things. So, thoroughly confused yet?--If not, I will try harder.[/QUOTE]

The ONLY reaosn hemay be confused is because you are giving him incorrect, ill-researched info.
I have to say, in all fairnes,s that your last bit of hearsay was, in form, correct.
Again, without trying to offend, please check your info.


[quote]*WiZaRD- .... something nasty beyond your wildest dreams. I've heard 928's are maintanence hazards...<hr></blockquote>

...And I have heard 951s blow up, and they are all back-assed and run down. if I heard it, does that make it true? "Maintenance Hazards" are made by previous owners, not the vehicle itself. Within Reason.

Thanks for reading, and remember to check sources, and find first hand knowledge.
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />