Skip

...and, why a mechanic's stethoscope should be in every toolbox.

Two tales of Mechanics Gone Wild!

[yesterday] - My Jetta (97 GL 2.0), henceforth known as POS, developed a knocking sound coincident with engine speed. The sound developed after some spirited rural driving (for whatever said POS can accomplish). By the time I'm home, the sound is most definitely a problem worth investigating immediately. My fear, as a devout automotive pessimist, was rod knock. Not too big a deal, as replacement engines for POS are relatively inexpensive. Armed with my bona fide mechanic's stethoscope, I determine the problem to in fact be the alternator - looks like the bearing self destructed, though with no visual signs. The noise really threw me at first - not the normal high-pitched whine you'd expect, and the noise transfer put the perceived origin deep in the engine block (later determined to be the aluminum mounting bracket coupling the sound to the lower block and belt area). To verify, I loosened the alternator belt and ran the engine - knocking is now gone! Note: POS is MY97 with 100k miles, and is apparently on its third alternator!

[two weeks ago] - Wife complains that the Durango is "clunking" in the front end when she comes to a stop. She's worried, and I have no time to look at it. So, I send her to a local independent shop to have it diagnosed. The repair estimate comes to just under $800. This quote is to replace the upper and lower ball joints, and an alignment to follow. When I researched the Durango, I did notice there was an extraordinary amount of ball joint complaints - a fact that Chrysler admits, but offers no solution to. I talk to the service writer about the estimate and he explains that it's only the upper ball-joints that need to be replaced, but that the lowers are a highly recommended while-you're-there item. Having heard the same elsewhere, and being a believer in this philosophy, I have no issues with the explanation of work to be performed.

Confident that I can do the job for much less, though still short on time, I take an opportunity to view the problem for myself. I lift the front, remove the left wheel, and shake vigorously. I see the movement is indeed coming from the upper control arm area. More curiosity leads me to find the REAL source of the problem! The control arm is attached to a pivot bar through the use of two heavy bolts. These bolts also serve as the caster and camber adjustments - they are elongated. The bolts are loose! A quick check with some good light in the area shows me the worn bare metal area shining brightly. I check my Chilton's manual for the torque spec - is 160 ft lbs. Eyeballing the alignment settings, I tighten to spec. Problem solved.

So, curious as to how they diagnosed the problem, I call. They explain the procedure of lifting the front and using a pry bar to check ball joint deflection (yes, I did do this test on my own to be sure the ball joints weren't also bad). I don't make an issue of it at the time - just a mental note to warn others.

[today] - Interested to test their skills or lack thereof, I take the POS (Jetta) to them to diagnose the problem (knocking). Just over two hours later I get a call back from the mechanic. He starts by asking if I had changed the oil lately, or at least checked the fill level. "No, Why?" He goes on to explain to me the way a rod bearing works, and that I had apparently "spun" one. He goes on to explain the rebuild-labor verses used-replacement costs, and ends at a quote of just over $2k to replace the engine... he points out this will cure the valve cover oil leak I have also (in reality, needs a new oil cap)

I will call tomorrow to talk to the owner. I wanted to have enough time to review everything before calling their bluff. And yes, they are all ASE certified mechanics. Small town normalcy.

So, there you go...

Skip

Travis - sflraver

They shouldn't mess with you Skip. Can't they see your avatar... you will peck there heads off.



Did the misdirection seem deliberate?

Skip

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Travis - sflraver:
<strong>Did the misdirection seem deliberate?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yes, it was very clearly deliberate - or, simply gross negligence or incompetence - neither is acceptable... times 2. Honestly, this sort of behavior does not surprise me... many professions rely heavily on the uninformed patron. My sharing of this story is just a warning and reminder.

The easiest way to deal with this for me is to let them know that I know their game, and that I will use the "chain of friends" approach to spread the word. The truth can be a powerful ally, or enemy. I can only assume the owner will defend the mechanic's position - for this, he may pay dearly. Firing him would be the right choice, only if the "group" is not as corrupt as the "individual".

Skip

Devia

I would NOT take any cars back to them, that's for damn sure, and file with the BBB. Since they did it twice, I wouldn't trust them with a spoon!

I don't let anyone try and BS me over cars, nope, ixnay.

- Julie

Matt O.

Get 'em skip!

PeteL

Skip
I have a Durango as well, that seems to have "upper ball joint probs" at least that's what the wizards at NTB told me when they tried to do an alignment.
I am going to look at it this weekend. Where exactly are those bolts? Good thing is the truck is under warranty, and ball joints are covered so I may have them replaced. But there is no guarantee that these bolts would be tightened. So I want to check them.

SidViscous

Skip.

Had the same problem with my camber adjustment bolt on my Daytona. didn't figure it out till it fell out.

As to Mechanics.

I took my 84 New Yorker in and asked how much an alignement would cost. THe owner/mechanic asked. "Front and rear, or just front?" For those of you unaware, Older New Yorker was a rear drive with a solid rear axle and no alignment adjustment.

I said nothing. Got in my car and drove away.

Another time I asked a shop to even out my torsion bars on my Duster. Guy came back later and said it didn't have tortion bars and even if it did they were un-adjustable. But he was nice about it. Eventually He had me drive the car back in, put it on the lift and I showed him the torsion bars and the adjustment bolt.

He was pretty upset with himself and we spent about an hour going over the car together and doing whatever minor fixes could be done free of charge.

BartW

Thank God I am not the only one Skip. I hate going to mechanics anymore. I used to wrench quite a bit myself but when I started a business time was limited and I was making more than the $65 per hour rate that the shops charge so I would just tell the wife to take it in. Besides having numerous needless things replaced in search of the real problems I was also not at all pleased with the quality of work that was performed across the board. I now do everything myself with the exception of machining which I don't have the room or equipment for. I would also like to add that the internet in general and these boards are extremely helpful in diagnosing problems that seem to be common in certain models.

sasilverbullet

And the unfortunate thing is that I've heard many Porsche 'dealer' (what DO they deal in?) mechanic horror stories also!

Fishey

I can top all story's my friend has a SL1 saturn and they are telling him its $2,500 to replace the engine because the block is cracked. This engine has 160,000 on it so I was kinda like well maybe... I look at the car he tells me it is eatting anti-freeze and its a Headgasket. YES only a blown head gasket. So I think I am going to go punch the guy that tried to take advantage of my poor friend. (head gasket can't be more then $180 (witch is the price of the 944) I am guessing around $75. So compare the differance in price.

TaboII

No lie,

This is from the horse’s mouth directly. Porsche mech's make $15.00 an hour to start no exceptions I asked!

Nice to know that the 65-85 and hour labor charge is going right into the company coffers and not into your cars!!!!

IF GOOD "That’s a big if" they can hit the 50K mark after 5 years. It's all a scam. Mech's don’t care about the quality of work they do in general. Shops are looking for 60-100 dollars an hour and they don't car how they get it.

I now do all my own work and there is no exception.

To complement the good mech’s out there. The good ones have a waiting list of weeks if not months to get to see because everyone knows there good.

jim968

Good go, Skip!!! It's always disappointing to find incompetent folks, but there's also a litle personal satisfaction to go with it. And at least you know who not to go back to.

My own worst (in terms of possible outcome) was Sears Automotive after getting replacement wheels put on my first Toyota truck.. the original chrome spokers (bought from Sears) had rusted in less than a year; after a long arguement, they agreed to replace them. When I got home with the new ones, I started immediately to wax them... hit a lug nut with my knuckle, and it turned.. three more were only finger-tight, and six more were only a little tighter. 10 loose out of 24.... scary.

When I went back, I asked the manager to point out the mechanic's car.. explained that I wanted to loosen some of his lug nuts so he could unknowingly drive in a similar situation... But since I hadn't paid for the work (warranty replacement), I couldn't get a refund. Dang! 8)

I now use three shops.. one for all exhaust work, one for all tires & front end work, and one for whatever mechanical stuff I can't do. I've used all three for over 15 years, and plan to continue.

Jim, "Duct tape is like the Force; it has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together."

Dan in Pasadena

I think from now on all these mechanics should be collectively referred to as "The Wizards" per Pete's post.

(Friggin cracked me up)

Kick their *** Skip.

Jeff928S4

Knowing your car is paramount!!

I was kinda mechanically inclined before buying the Porsche, but these discussion boards have helped me learn so much about my car.

It's absolutely amazing how little some "trained mechanics" know, or at least how little they pretend to know.

I've had at least three occasions where I was quoted a certain time to get some work done and it wasn't even close.

The worse is showing up at a place with YOUR OWN PARTS. Expect an additional .5 to one hour extra almost everytime when you supply your own parts or they sometimes tell you that it is the wrong part and charge you an hour because you "tied up the lifts".

944S Boyeee

Tabor

Hey skip, someimes when you go through a lot of alternators it is because the bushings that the mounting bolts ride on are damaged or non-existant. I had this problem with a 1986 Nissan Sentra.