SS. Fuel Lines: A how to
10-11-2002, 12:08 AM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
SS. Fuel Lines: A how to
Well we all know that the fuel lines are something that we need to keep track of in our cars. One of the best solutions is to run SS Fuel lines.
You can buy a kit or you can do it yourself. With a lot of help from Dave Salama (thanks dave) I got mine done today (and dropped the torsion bars but that is another story for after i'm done putting them back in.
Anyway the procedure goes something like this.
1) Disconect battery
2) Bleed fuel pressure out of the rail, take off the end cap and just let the fuel run out, use rags to catch all the fuel. (Wait for it all to come out)
3) Take off Fuel Rail (removing the injectors from the rail made this easier as well).
4) Disconect the return fuel line by undoing the hose clamps, and cut the fuel hose in half. This will give you two seperate places to work.
5) Now this is the tricky bit, you have to cut the old clamps off your fuel line. Wet them down with water to dilute any fuel that was left behind. Any technique you can come with should work, we used a dremmel and a hacksaw. There are three clamps on the fuel rail, and the one in the fender well. Be carefull that you don't cut too deep.
6) Cut The new SS Fuel lines to fit. You need three pieces, the Fuel line, return line, and the smaller line on between the damper and fuel rail. Wrap the SS lines in Duct tape and then use the hacksaw to cut it to fit.
7) Install the SS lines, takes some effort but they will go on, and then clamp the down with hose clamps.
8) Put everything back together, bring the fuel rail up to pressure and check for leaks.
9) Sleep a little easier knowing that you have upgraded your car to SS fuel lines.
I'm sure I left some things out, but it is fairly self explanitory once you get going.
You can buy a kit or you can do it yourself. With a lot of help from Dave Salama (thanks dave) I got mine done today (and dropped the torsion bars but that is another story for after i'm done putting them back in.
Anyway the procedure goes something like this.
1) Disconect battery
2) Bleed fuel pressure out of the rail, take off the end cap and just let the fuel run out, use rags to catch all the fuel. (Wait for it all to come out)
3) Take off Fuel Rail (removing the injectors from the rail made this easier as well).
4) Disconect the return fuel line by undoing the hose clamps, and cut the fuel hose in half. This will give you two seperate places to work.
5) Now this is the tricky bit, you have to cut the old clamps off your fuel line. Wet them down with water to dilute any fuel that was left behind. Any technique you can come with should work, we used a dremmel and a hacksaw. There are three clamps on the fuel rail, and the one in the fender well. Be carefull that you don't cut too deep.
6) Cut The new SS Fuel lines to fit. You need three pieces, the Fuel line, return line, and the smaller line on between the damper and fuel rail. Wrap the SS lines in Duct tape and then use the hacksaw to cut it to fit.
7) Install the SS lines, takes some effort but they will go on, and then clamp the down with hose clamps.
8) Put everything back together, bring the fuel rail up to pressure and check for leaks.
9) Sleep a little easier knowing that you have upgraded your car to SS fuel lines.
I'm sure I left some things out, but it is fairly self explanitory once you get going.
10-11-2002, 12:41 PM
#2
I don't like the idea of using hose clamps on braid covered hose for fuel injection applications. I have stated before that the fuel systems on our cars are not really all that high pressure, but ought as well play it safe.
I have already outlined this before, but here goes again.
To use stainless braid covered hose correctly for this application you will need to remove the rubber hose and connection from the existing hard line. You will then need to aquire a tube sleeve and tube nut for that tube size (I think it will wind up a -6 tube sleeve and nut) and slide it onto the hard line. You will need to flare the hard line with a 37 degree flare tool. This is not an easy tool to find and you will NOT be able to get one at the hardware or car parts store (those are 45 degree flare tools). You will however be able to find one at <a href="http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catmain.php?dest=cathome.php" target="_blank">Aircraft Spruce Aviation</a>. This is important since the 37 degree AN adaptor will not mate exactly with a 45 degree flare.
EDIT: If you click on the link it will only take you to the catalog. Click on Tools in the left frame and then Tubing Tools in the main frame. Then under Flaring Tools click 37 degree Hi-Duty Flaring Tools for the low cost options.
Now you have to put together the hose to connect between the hard line and fuel pressure damper. You will need:
1) the proper length of -6 hose
2) a male to male -6 adaptor (to connect the tube nut on the hard line to the hose end)
3) a -6 hose end (for the hard line end)
4) either a metric 16x1.5 hose end (for -6 hose) or a 16x1.5 female to -6 male adaptor and a -6 hose end.
AN (also called dash size) hose, ends and adaptors are easy to find form Earl's or Aeroquip. Metric is a bit more difficult. You can get metric adaptors from both Earl's and Aeroquip, or hose ends from <a href="http://www.goodridge.net/cat/topframe.html" target="_blank">Goodridge</a> or <a href="http://www.batinc.net/files/metric.pdf" target="_blank">British American Transfer</a>
I have already outlined this before, but here goes again.
To use stainless braid covered hose correctly for this application you will need to remove the rubber hose and connection from the existing hard line. You will then need to aquire a tube sleeve and tube nut for that tube size (I think it will wind up a -6 tube sleeve and nut) and slide it onto the hard line. You will need to flare the hard line with a 37 degree flare tool. This is not an easy tool to find and you will NOT be able to get one at the hardware or car parts store (those are 45 degree flare tools). You will however be able to find one at <a href="http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catmain.php?dest=cathome.php" target="_blank">Aircraft Spruce Aviation</a>. This is important since the 37 degree AN adaptor will not mate exactly with a 45 degree flare.
EDIT: If you click on the link it will only take you to the catalog. Click on Tools in the left frame and then Tubing Tools in the main frame. Then under Flaring Tools click 37 degree Hi-Duty Flaring Tools for the low cost options.
Now you have to put together the hose to connect between the hard line and fuel pressure damper. You will need:
1) the proper length of -6 hose
2) a male to male -6 adaptor (to connect the tube nut on the hard line to the hose end)
3) a -6 hose end (for the hard line end)
4) either a metric 16x1.5 hose end (for -6 hose) or a 16x1.5 female to -6 male adaptor and a -6 hose end.
AN (also called dash size) hose, ends and adaptors are easy to find form Earl's or Aeroquip. Metric is a bit more difficult. You can get metric adaptors from both Earl's and Aeroquip, or hose ends from <a href="http://www.goodridge.net/cat/topframe.html" target="_blank">Goodridge</a> or <a href="http://www.batinc.net/files/metric.pdf" target="_blank">British American Transfer</a>
10-11-2002, 05:44 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Any other opinions out there? Turbo Tim (SFR), you sell SS lines with hose clamps, what do you think? The connections over the metal nipples seem very secure, and much less likely to leak as oppose to the stock system. Mannings connectors seem very complicated and expensive to me.
10-11-2002, 06:08 PM
#4
Oh yeah baby, they're not cheap. But if your going to use SS braid covered hose then do it right. That said, there are certain low pressure applications where hose clamps are OK with the SS braid covered hose. As I said before the fuel system on our cars is not very high pressure, so you can get probably get away with hose clamps designed for fuel injection.
The benefit of SS hose on a street car is really limited to its higher fire resistance at best. At worst it is what a lot of folks (not including me) would call "rice".
Think Bauhaus (form follows function). If your really only replacing your existing hose because it leaks, and you think hose clamps are good enough for your repair job, then high pressure rubber fuel injection hose should be fine (and a lot cheaper) too. Remember, correct SS braid cover hose like Earl's Auto-Flex or Aeroquip AQP can be as much as $7.00 to $15.00 per foot.
And no Skip, I don't work for Holley (Earl's) or Eaton (Aeroquip).
The benefit of SS hose on a street car is really limited to its higher fire resistance at best. At worst it is what a lot of folks (not including me) would call "rice".
Think Bauhaus (form follows function). If your really only replacing your existing hose because it leaks, and you think hose clamps are good enough for your repair job, then high pressure rubber fuel injection hose should be fine (and a lot cheaper) too. Remember, correct SS braid cover hose like Earl's Auto-Flex or Aeroquip AQP can be as much as $7.00 to $15.00 per foot.
And no Skip, I don't work for Holley (Earl's) or Eaton (Aeroquip).
10-11-2002, 07:46 PM
#5
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[quote]Originally posted by Manning:
<strong>And no Skip, I don't work for Holley (Earl's) or Eaton (Aeroquip).</strong><hr></blockquote>
What'd I do? Sheesh - meany <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
Skip
<strong>And no Skip, I don't work for Holley (Earl's) or Eaton (Aeroquip).</strong><hr></blockquote>
What'd I do? Sheesh - meany <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
Skip
10-11-2002, 08:31 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
I just did my fuel system pressure check today and can happily report that my SFR SS fuel lines and my fuel pressure guage were all free of leaks (50PSI) as of the first installation.
I didn't do anything special other than use some teflon thread tape on the fuel pressure guage connectors - I set mine up at right angles on the end of the fuel rail.
Cheers,
Wayne
I didn't do anything special other than use some teflon thread tape on the fuel pressure guage connectors - I set mine up at right angles on the end of the fuel rail.
Cheers,
Wayne
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10-12-2002, 01:32 PM
#8
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I'm pretty much with Manning on this one. The factory, though certainly fallible with its use of crimped connections on the fuel hose, did use compression fittings for the pressure side of the fuel rail.
I've planned on installing a setup like Manning detailed for some time. I greatly appreciate Manning's detail in what is required to do this. In the meantime, my car will probably burn because I am looking for the ultimate solution instead of using a readily available workable solution that is readily available at a reasonable cost.
I suppose the real truth is that the braided lines are very strong and there is not going to be a leak in the middle of them. The amount of fuel that would leak out of the ends near the hose clamps is likely insignificant and not likely to contribute to a fire. Still, leaking fuel pretty much sucks!
I've planned on installing a setup like Manning detailed for some time. I greatly appreciate Manning's detail in what is required to do this. In the meantime, my car will probably burn because I am looking for the ultimate solution instead of using a readily available workable solution that is readily available at a reasonable cost.
I suppose the real truth is that the braided lines are very strong and there is not going to be a leak in the middle of them. The amount of fuel that would leak out of the ends near the hose clamps is likely insignificant and not likely to contribute to a fire. Still, leaking fuel pretty much sucks!
10-13-2002, 09:42 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
My car is plumbed front to rear (-8/-6) with stainless lines and all correct fittings. Lines and fittings were less than $400. Jeez, those 120 degree fittings must be made of gold.
The car is track only and the fire suit my mother supplied me with as OE has an SFI rating of
'0'
The car is track only and the fire suit my mother supplied me with as OE has an SFI rating of
'0'
10-14-2002, 06:46 PM
#11
Sorry Keith, this is the first chance I have had to check the board today, and if you check my sig you'll see I don't check the board on weekends. I don't have a computer at home and only check the board if I am not busy or after hours. Kind of ironic that someone in IT support doesn't have a computer, huh?
I'll have to get back to you about the $ amount to take care of the hoses under the hood (maybe $200-300 range). The cheaper tool from Aircraft Spruce is around $100.00.
Like I said, it ain't cheap, but it is correct!
I haven't bothered to figure out the hoses at the back of the car because the tank to pump has different sized ends and uses hose clamps, and the pump to filter has that freakin banjo fitting. Alan, what did you do about the hoses at the back of the car?
Sorry Skip, I just remember another post were I was busting on those shyte Russell Speed Bleeders and you seemed to imply I was somehow connected to Earl's. Didn't mean to be a meany (this time at least)
I'll have to get back to you about the $ amount to take care of the hoses under the hood (maybe $200-300 range). The cheaper tool from Aircraft Spruce is around $100.00.
Like I said, it ain't cheap, but it is correct!
I haven't bothered to figure out the hoses at the back of the car because the tank to pump has different sized ends and uses hose clamps, and the pump to filter has that freakin banjo fitting. Alan, what did you do about the hoses at the back of the car?
Sorry Skip, I just remember another post were I was busting on those shyte Russell Speed Bleeders and you seemed to imply I was somehow connected to Earl's. Didn't mean to be a meany (this time at least)
10-14-2002, 07:03 PM
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Aeroquip also makes a hose that can be clamped but it isnt as pretty as the SS. It has slip connections that have a working pressure to 250 PSI and was designed for aerospace. I have been running it on my BMW for a while and put it on the 944 NA, both work well without leaks and it costs a great deal less than the SS. The cost including the adapter for the fuel rail was around $50 and the ends are anodized alum.
10-15-2002, 02:47 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Michael,
You can silver solder/braze weld on fittings in the rear. I used a dash 6 for the return and a dash 8 or 10 out of the tank. It's a PTA but it can be done.
The push on tubing is supposed to be good. One other thought is the savings in weight. Also consider that the stainless braid can wear through other hoses if it comes into contact with them.
Alan
You can silver solder/braze weld on fittings in the rear. I used a dash 6 for the return and a dash 8 or 10 out of the tank. It's a PTA but it can be done.
The push on tubing is supposed to be good. One other thought is the savings in weight. Also consider that the stainless braid can wear through other hoses if it comes into contact with them.
Alan