Manning

Wow! This thread went so far off of what my original intent was. I merely wanted to get opinions about why the "tuner" craze for VWs fell off and the Asian cars grew in popularity. Obviously there really aren't any other Euro compacts other than the Vdubs in the US. I guess as Nibs pointed out small Fords are big to hop up in Europe, as are VWs and Peugeots and the like.

But, since this thread evolved into what it did, I want to say I really admire George for the comments he made, and agree with him almost across the board.

Regarding front drivers not being able to hang with our cars, come on. Have you driven a well sorted front driver. Yeah they don't handle the same, but some of them really haul ***. Look at the Speed World Challenge for example, those Type R Integras really haul *** and beat up on the rear drive Bimmers on a regular basis.

And finally regarding the supposed excellent quality of our cars. Honestly folks, do you really honestly beleave that? Cracked dash tops, broken window tracks, delaminated rear windows, leaky oil cooler seals, weak door stop straps, the crappy sunroof gear, over-engineered front control arms with shyte ball joints, the list goes on and on.

Don't get me wrong, I like my car, but I am not blind to reality just because it has Porsche printed across the back.

So, back to my original question, why did the Asian car craze take off so wildly while the VW craze collapsed? They seem comparable price wise and tunability wise.

944S2NUT

[quote]Originally posted by nib5:
<strong>

I run a Mac, why don't I get all the cool cheap toys like the PC users? Because I am 5% of the market - C'est la vie.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What makes a mac so special?? Cause a G4 1000mhz is = to a P4 20,000gh?? that maybe so BUT you bus speed ext... hard drive are ur bottle necks. Making it not that much diff from a PC So inreality you are paying more for nothing. Lets not for get how propriotary&lt;--spelling) they are virtually no upgrading poss, and yes they need to be upgraded as frequently as a PC.

Silverbullet951

[quote]Originally posted by K27w:
<strong>"Japanese innovation" "Superior technology"
What a bunch of hogwash.
Variable cams, Wankle engines, turbo technology,etc, ha, all been done a long time ago by the Germans or the British.
The only thing the Japanese have done is put the stuff in to mass production and make it cheaper.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are right on! I agree with you 100 percent! and geo,
it's a little obvious what you're trying to do. You say you're not, but you really are trying to diss on 944s. If you like japanese cars sooooo much, the sell that "piece of junk" 944 and buy some bolt on trash for that sentra of yours. This forum is for fans, not for people who have nothing good to say about porsches. All i've heard from you is negative negative negative. You'd be better off going to a Ricer forum. That's just what I feel. I'm entitled to my own opinion about this thread. Everyone else on this thread has good things to say about 944s and you're the only one that doensn't; Everyone is aggreeing with you to a certain extent, but you take it too far.

Silverbullet951

Like k27w said, If it weren't for felix wankel (german), you wouldn't have the rx7.

AutoXdriver

[quote]Originally posted by Manning:
<strong>
Regarding front drivers not being able to hang with our cars, come on. Have you driven a well sorted front driver. Yeah they don't handle the same, but some of them really haul ***. Look at the Speed World Challenge for example, those Type R Integras really haul *** and beat up on the rear drive Bimmers on a regular basis.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Undoubtably true. There are so many things that have to come together to make a fast track car, FWD vs. RWD is just one and these days they've gotten much better of minimizing the negative effects of FWD. Platforms otherwise being equal however the FWD car does have a disadvantage. No one said FWD cars couldn't be made to handle well.

[quote] And finally regarding the supposed excellent quality of our cars. Honestly folks, do you really honestly beleave that? Cracked dash tops, broken window tracks, delaminated rear windows, leaky oil cooler seals, weak door stop straps, the crappy sunroof gear, over-engineered front control arms with shyte ball joints, the list goes on and on. <hr></blockquote>

Hey hey, I resemble that remark!

All cars have their pet issues that the owners love to hate. I haven't had one yet that didn't, and just ask anyone who knows me I've owned lots of cars. What I was talking about regarding quality is build quality. The quality you sense in something just because you can feel it. I agree the 944 has its quirks, maybe even more than most, but thats a different thing than what I was talking about. I wouldn't say a Ferrari was low quality because it needs more work to keep running than a Honda, would you?

M758

[quote]Originally posted by Silverbullet951:
<strong>
You are right on! I agree with you 100 percent! and geo,
it's a little obvious what you're trying to do. You say you're not, but you really are trying to diss on 944s. If you like japanese cars sooooo much, the sell that "piece of junk" 944 and buy some bolt on trash for that sentra of yours. This forum is for fans, not for people who have nothing good to say about porsches. All i've heard from you is negative negative negative. You'd be better off going to a Ricer forum. That's just what I feel. I'm entitled to my own opinion about this thread. Everyone else on this thread has good things to say about 944s and you're the only one that doensn't; Everyone is aggreeing with you to a certain extent, but you take it too far.</strong><hr></blockquote>

SilverBullet951.... Now I think YOU have taken this too far. <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> I see this a PERSONAL attack on Geo and I don't like. We need to be above that and allow the free and fair discussion of issues and our opinions. I do not know the man other than his dealings on this Board. I have always found his comments to be interesting and insightful. I have not agreeded with him on everthing, but feel that he has provided valuable information. You may attack his ideas all you want, but please refrain from making further personal attacks.

iloveporsches

[quote]Originally posted by AutoXdriver:
Every time I close the door on my car I am reminded I'm not driving an inexpensive japanese car.
<hr></blockquote>

Occasionally I take a trip out to the garage just to open and close the doors on the 944 because I love the solid "thump" they make.

944S2NUT

Read this funny forum from revscene.net

<a href="http://www.revscene.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79228" target="_blank">http://www.revscene.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79228</a>

Silverbullet951

The porsche name is being attacked, that's why I'm defending it. I love porsche to death and don't feel it's right to say nothing but negative comments. porsche quality will never be below japanese and that's it. I don't mean a personal attack, I am defending the porsche name.

Geo

[quote]Originally posted by Manning:
<strong>So, back to my original question, why did the Asian car craze take off so wildly while the VW craze collapsed? They seem comparable price wise and tunability wise.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The Japanese cars modernized while the VWs did not. The Japanese have really applied (not expanded) turbocharger technology better than anyone else (like it or not) and turbocharging is much sexier than NA or superchargers (like it or not). So, when kids inherited their parents' Civics, Integras, and Accords, it coincided with lots of cool stuff coming out of Japan. Engine swaps are another reason. You can easily do more engine swaps into a Civic these days than you used to be able to do with a small block Chevy (OK, an exaggeration).

I had a 76 Scirocco before I bought my first Japanese car (an 86 CRX). At the time I read VW & Porsche magazine (before it became European Car - and it was a wonderful magazine). VWs were the hot ticket. But, they still did not have crossflow heads, let alone twincams. In the mid eighties, twincams suddenly became readily available. VW started offering them, but at a much higher price and offering less performance.

By the time I bought my second Japanese car (my Sentra SE-R, actually built in TN) twincams had nearly become commonplace and performance really started taking off again. VW had a few really wonderful offerings, but at a huge premium. But that was not all. The VW platforms were getting really old in the tooth. They were still based upon 15-20 year old designs. Sadly, they still are.

VW experimented with the G20 Kompressor, the VR6, and even offered some twincam engines. They were all nice offerings, but in comparison with Japanese compact car offerings on price and performance, they were way over priced. I would have loved a nice Corrado, but when I bought my SE-R it was only 2/3 the cost and offered more performance with considerably more modern engineering.

VW finally started making real inroads with the 1.8T offering. It's sweet, but it's still an under performer. The SR20DET engine in my G20 is an older design by approximately 5 years, yet with only a slight increase in displacement, and about the same amount of boost, it makes 205 bhp stock vs the 150 for the 1.8T and it has truly insignificant boost lag. Which would you rather play with? Oh, and last I read, the VWs' suspensions are still related to the old A1 Golf design (but I could be wrong - it's been a while since I followed this stuff).

Again, don't get me wrong. I love the new Jetta with the 1.8T. If I were in the market for a new car, it would probably be at the top of the list, but much of that is due to the fact it aesthetics and the fact I already have a couple of performance cars in my stable and am building a race car. If I were younger and looking for an only car, the Jetta would get a look, but probably not the nod.

Doug944s2

Manning, I think you're a little hard on assessing the quality of our cars. After all, the oldest examples of the 924/944/968 lineage have been around for a quarter-century; the newest, for 7 years. They've all evolved from the 924, whose blueprints were probably inked in about 1973. Of course they've been updated, but considering that Nixon-era engineering is at the core of our cars, I think they hold up pretty well.

Geo

[quote]Originally posted by Silverbullet951:
<strong>and geo,
it's a little obvious what you're trying to do. You say you're not, but you really are trying to diss on 944s. If you like japanese cars sooooo much, the sell that "piece of junk" 944 and buy some bolt on trash for that sentra of yours.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

You know, I am not going to stoop to your level. You haven't gotten the point of this thread first of all. Second of all, other than respond to a question about quality that I responded to totally honestly, I have not dissed the 944 and never have I said or implied that it is a "piece of junk." In fact, I've said plenty to the contrary.

[quote]Originally posted by Silverbullet951:
<strong>This forum is for fans, not for people who have nothing good to say about porsches. All i've heard from you is negative negative negative.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's because you apparently don't read very well because your assessment is wrong.

[quote]Originally posted by Silverbullet951:
<strong>You'd be better off going to a Ricer forum.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah sure. Who is the one actually building a 944 race car here?

M758

I have 01 GTI 1.8T.

This is my daily driver. Wonderfull little car. Small nice interior quiet. Plenty of power for the road and still gets me 31 MPG. It's front suspension looks very similar to my 84 944 and the rear is still beam axel. I was not looking for a Japanse car as in my opinion they lack soul and nothing interested me. This is my personal preference. I also looked at the Ford Focus... It was cheaper, but I did not like growly motor.

As a side note there is guy locally here with and Audi TT 1.8T Quatto.... Word is that he is pushing 320 hp with it. I have seen him autocross it at a couple of or PCA events, (My 84 beat him by a few tenths each time ) and other than the Kumho's you can't even tell anything was done.

Geo

Ah ha! I remember you. I guess I shouldn't feel bad. You were mounthing off in the racing forum as well. You really know how to make friends and earn respect.

[quote]Originally posted by Silverbullet951:
<strong>The porsche name is being attacked, that's why I'm defending it. I love porsche to death and don't feel it's right to say nothing but negative comments. porsche quality will never be below japanese and that's it. I don't mean a personal attack, I am defending the porsche name.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Gee, this is the same kind of garbage that the Honduh punks spew. I guess you're just rEprEsENtInG. U gOtS mAD skILLs, Yo.

<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

Steve Lavigne

[quote]Originally posted by Geo:
<strong>Gee, this is the same kind of garbage that the Honduh punks spew. I guess you're just rEprEsENtInG. U gOtS mAD skILLs, Yo.</strong><hr></blockquote>

wERd!