Wow, the 928 guys jumped in there for a second, didn't they? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

In any case, the 928 is a tough car to maintain. Guys that claim otherwise either owned the cars when new, were very lucky, or didn't concern themselves with the smaller, malfunctioning details. This not my word, but rather that from a factory trained Porsche technician (Bob Farmer) who worked on them when they were new in Indy, and now refuses to work on them in his shop.

He was very precise with his reasoning - they are simply too complex for their age. When they were new, I had the feeling that he thought they were neat cars. However, his commentary indicated that because they are getting old fast, all of that fancy technology that made them so cutting age in the late 70s and 80s was turning the cars into nightmares. Likewise, he thought that the engines were "solid" if maintainted properly (sound familiar?), but that the nickel and diming tendencies of the shark outweighted any other Porsche he'd seen. His big complaints were 928 vacuum and electrical issues made especially nasty by their complexity. He also commented heavily on the expense of parts.

Now, I don't want to insult the 928 owners here (because they can be a very angry group <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) so let me add a disclaimer. My g/f loves them. She wants to buy one as a "reward" when she gets her PhD. That having been said, this won't be happening for another 5 years when we can afford to tackle the havoc that a 928 will create on our budget. I had an opportunity to pick up a 1979 shark in a trade for my ex-83 944 several months ago. I knew the owner of the 928 very well, and he is still a good friend. I'm so glad I didn't purchase that car. I had a good time driving it (was an auto) but like others on there, thought that it transmitted a heavy and somewhat disconnected feeling. Fun car, though - and I enjoyed the torque immensely. Still, climbing back into my little 944(s) was a welcome relief.

So, take it or leave it - the word of a retired factory tech about the 928 - neat car, but not neat enough to justify $1000 radiators.

Micah

 

I'm going to take a real good look at the 951 today. It will be nice to have a drive in a red Porsche again.

How many of you think that I'll be able to still think about considering a 928 after some boost? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Seriously, if it's in the condition the seller stated I'll probably buy it.

 

The seats of a 928 make this little “whoosh” sound because of the perfect fit of the supple leather. Once you’ve been sucked into that seat there’s no way back and you know it. With a big growl the beasts’ engine springs to life, just by the touch of you fingertips. So much power right there in your control!
Describing driving the car as “fun” is a big understatement.
Triggered by tipping the brake pedal, the shark puts his teeth in the asphalt, making it feel like the whole world has came to a complete stop in a fraction of time.
I’ve never feared for the moments of loosing control over the car. The thought of not being able to control myself over so much power makes my palms sweaty.

And do you want to know the amazing thing? I have the same feeling every day, as I use it as a daily driver.

These are my feelings about the 928. High maintenance costs? True. A bitch to drive a 5 speed through after work traffic? You’re damn right. Can’t make the decision for you, because I’ve never driven a 944 or a 951. Although I don’t doubt their fun factor.

Here’s a question though. A couple of people said “for a track car take the 951”. I’ve no figures to back this up and the specifications probably prove otherwise, but some time ago the Dutch 928 club organised a track slalom and invited some other clubs (yes, that’s how friendly we 928 guys are). Now the top three were 928’s, number four was a 944 turbo then a 911 I believe. Is this a lack of power or driving skills? Or is the 951 faster than a 944 turbo (I’m not really familiar with the car, see)

 

951 is the factory designation for the 944 turbo so a 951 is a 944 turbo. When it comes to the seats they are exactly the same.

When it comes to which car that is fastest around a track it probably depends more on the track than on the car when they are driven by equally good drivers.

Since the 951 has the same brake equipment as the 928S4 and lower weight and the same weight distribution it should be able to outbreak the heavier 928.

I don't feel than one car is better than the other, but they are definately different. And I have enjoyed reading all of the postings in this thread.

Thank you all for keeping this discussing on a good level and turn into some sort of war like what usually happens when i.e. MAC and PC's are compared!

Soon I'm off to be hugged by a pair of sport seats.

 

Whoa! First, the seats may LOOK similar but they are most assuredly different. The 928 seats are a little larger and definately more comfortable for the long haul.

Second, the brakes are NOT the same. The Turbo S and 89 Turbo do have the 928 front brakes. The other 951's do not have rotors or calipers as large as the S4. In addition the GTS (same as big red TT) brakes bolt right on to an S4. I have made this change to my 928 and it is awesome.

One big difference I found between the two is that the 951 is a "one hour car" tops. The 928 is a long distance champ, always comfortable, always entertaining.

Back on the maint costs. Stock vs stock MAYBE the 951 is a little less over 5-10 years. I highly doubt the 951 will remain stock, at that point my personal experience is that the 951 is PAINFULLY expensive to own. I have also found that I can actually do much more of the work myself on the 928. I swaped springs and shocks in a matter of a few hours on the 928, try that on the 951 torsion bars. I installed an oil pan baffle and pan gasket in the 928, the extra plumbing and a need to remove the crossmember on the 951 make this much tougher. The clutch on the 928 is a breeze, the 951 is a pain. About the only complexity issue is the automatic climate controls. Mine work great, the PO went through the system and it functions flawlessly.

I say, spend some more time looking, try a 5 speed S4 with the rear muffler bypass installed. My 951 was a cool car, you will not go wrong but, for the same money the 928 is a whole lot more car. Considering the amount of driveing you plan on doing, the 928 appears to be by far the better choice.

Again, don't let maint horror stories stop you from buying the 928. I made that mistake and enjoyed a 951 for three years. I couldn't be more pleased that I finally made the switch to the model I really wanted.

 

Let me clear up the track issue. If you take a stock 928 and a stock 951 give them both say a $4000 budget for race wheels, tires, safety gear and simple mods and the stipulation that the cars have to be streetable when done; the 951 will be quicker and more fun on the track. That is simply because you start out with a lighter car and the potential for a better HP/Weight ratio out of the box. Now if you have unlimited budget and don't ever plan to street drive the car again they probably can both be made to be equally fast around a track. (with equal/same driver)

So when they say the 951 is a better track car what is really meant is the 951 is a better bang for your buck track car.

Again I ask the question of how will you use the car? I use my 928 for cruising on the open highway and spirited drives down old country roads. If I were to drive it every day on a short trip I would want the 951 because it just easier to drive at low speeds.

Drive both and seriously consider how you will use it.

 

Brent, you are probably correct about most things.

But I do have a 35.000 km experience from my 944S2 which is very similar to a stock 951 and it's definately not a one hour car.

Thanks for your info.

 

I will drive 2x30 minutes + 2x45 minutes every day. On weekends I'll probably track it or visit friends. Will spend 1-3 hours a day in the car.

My 944S2 that was lowered, stiffed up with springs and Konis wasn't uncomfortable at all so I don't really think that it's an issue. One plus on the 951 is the targa sunroof.

 

I definitely disagree that the 951 is a one hour car. I spent 4 hours driving it recently on a trip and it was a pleasure to drive and I felt great after the trip was over. I have the 8-way power seat on the driver's side in my car and have adjusted it just perfectly for me to enjoy it. I have spent some time in the 928s as well and their seats are also a joy. Similarly, my old 86 Toyota Supra with leather and power seats was also a joy on long trips. If you want a one hour seat, come drive my Saturn with it's cheap cloth seats with cheap foam in them and manual only adjustments (and not many of those!). A 4 hour drive in that car leaves you tired, sore, and annoyed. Thank goodness it goes up for sale next week!!! Yeah!

Cheers!

 

I've completed more than a few 12+ hr road trips in my 951 stopping nothing more than fuel, food, and potty. It was very comfortable. So far it's the best long distance car I've driven.

 

OK guys, that was intended as a comparitive comment. I make a weekly sojurn to the twin cities. In the summer it is in the P-car. The trip is 2-3 hrs each way. I had the suspension modded on my 951, 450lb front springs, etc, etc. I have also set up my 928 with stiffer suspenders, 600lb fronts and 400lb rears. There is no doubt as to which one is the better long distance machine. Not that the 951 is bad, just that the 928 is better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

 

Anders, when will you be test driving those sweet things..?

Let us know all the details..!!

any pics??

 

from micah..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Wow, the 928 guys jumped in there for a second, didn't they?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yup .. I <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=005934" target="_blank">kinda</a> had to let 'em know.. works better to have an well-balanced discussion, no?

i like the <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=005934" target="_blank">labmborghini comparison</a>, by Z...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by heinrich:
"Which one is comparable to a Lamborghini?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">It depends what aspect you're comparing. When Motor Trend tested the 928S4 and the Lamborghini Countach for high speed, the S4 had a 7 mph higher top Speed than the Lamborghini. In that sense, the 951 might be more comparable to the Lamborghini, since the S4 is faster than either of those. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Nice!

 

By no way will I say a 951 is more comfortable than a 928 or that the 928 is more nimble than the 951. Go drive it and see what you like. I would not buy an auto 928 after owning more than 10 928s from 1979 to 1989 models. I loved the 5 speed (79 and 87 sold a while back)and would buy another one if I find the right deal (of course then I will be looking for a parts car). Still, I know for sure I will own a 951 to the day I die. The only solution is to decide which one you want to buy first and get the other one later.

 

In terms of looks, exhaust sound and rear seating, I think the 928 wins.

But if you're looking for affordable performance, it's 951 all the way.

I like them both, but neither as an automatic.