I think I blew my head gasket!
10-06-2002, 08:53 PM
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I think I blew my head gasket!
I'll post a long and a short version of my story so those of you with a short attention span can get the gist while those of you who would like to know more details can read more fully. Short is in italics, long is in regular type, questions are in bold.
To make a long story short, I was driving my car less vigorously than I normally do last night, it started sounding like it was running on 3 cylinders, after a while it started smelling like burnt pancakes, and a while longer huge puffs of white smoke started coming out of the exhaust. It ran on all 4 with no burnt pancake smell and no white smoke when it was on boost and when a cold motor was first started for a couple of minutes. I lost a gallon and a half of coolant in a day's time. I think I blew my head gasket, proceed to the questions in bold.
I drove down to DC on saturday, went and picked up a couple friends from a hotel next to the convention center, and we drove down to georgetown. I wasn't running my car all that hard really...once or twice when I would go through a tight underpass or a tunnel I would gun it just to hear the sounds, but that was about it. As I get into georgetown, I notice that my car is running funny at idle.
Idle is a perfect 950 RPMs, but it sounds kind of like a v-twin harley...after I would get the motor over 3000 RPMs in neutral or above idle in gear, the weird sound would go away. I figured it was just misfiring on one cylinder and it was probably a bad spark plug...not a big deal I thought...I can pick up a new set of plugs tomorrow.
Well, at the end of a night out in georgetown (I was DD) I had to return my friends back to thier hotel, then drive back to my rooommate's parents house in georgetown where we were staying the night. I popped the hood, wiggled the plug wires, went in the car, started it up, and it only made the funny misfiring sound for a second, then returned to a smooth idle. It was nothing I thought, just some strange quirk in my car.
On the way to return them to their hotel, the car continued to run flawlessly, except some strange huge bass thuds like a couple of 15" solo barics sounding out a bass drum. This was followed by a smell of burnt pancakes. I dropped them off, and as soon as I pulled away, the car started running like garbage. It felt like it was running on 3 cylinders unless it was under boost in which case it ran fine. I also noticed the burnt pancake smell getting stronger, and puffs of white smoke (sometimes huge clouds) coming out of my exhaust. My temperature started to rise, and the car was still running on 3 cylinders except when it was on boost.
I was only a block away from where I was staying when the temp light came on, telling me to pull the F over and turn the car off. I was lucky to find a spot right there.
Anyways, I was hoping that it was some fluke, but the only time I ever have had a temperature surge like that was when I would loose coolant (I have been loosing coolant consistantly...about a gallon every month or every other month, for about a year now, with no coolant leaks I could find...maybe I have had a cracked headgasket all along), so I know I lost a lot of coolant (I had just filled it up the night before and bled it because I replaced the hose I bursted on friday) in a short period of time.
I went to bed, and woke up hoping it was just a bad dream, but when I went to go check out my car, it was almost completely dry of coolant. What was left in there smelled like gasoline. I knew by now that something hard and expensive to fix happened, like blowing a head gasket, but I went ahead and checked everything else to see if there was an explaination. No oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil...seems good so far, but a gasoline smell in the coolant and a loss of a gallon and a half of coolant in one day...
I figure I have had a crack in my head gasket for some time (this would explain my mysterious leakless coolant loss over the past year) and last night, the car just had enough (I wasn't ******* it hard at all last night either, which was strange) and the crack became a blow. Either this, or after my excursion last week and my hose blowing up, the sudden drop in pressure in the cooling system maybe caused something to happen. I don't really know. I figure it blew out between a coolant passage and a cylinder, with all of the oil passages through the head gasket being unscathed. The white burnt pancake smelling exhaust clouds are a good sign of a blown head gasket, as is what appears to be no pressure in one cylinder. When it would idle, I would look at my VDO boost gauge, and whenever it would stumble on that once cylinder, the vacuum would jump to less vacuum, and as it sat longer at idle, there would be less and less vacuum pulled until I revved it and let it settle back down.
I was able to make it to my parents house about 25 miles away as it doesn't seem to consume too much coolant when running at highway speeds (only 1/2 gallon in 25 miles) but now the car is sitting there and I had to have my dad drive me and my roommate back to school which is about 100 miles. I want to fix this myself, but have never pulled a head and don't have all of the tools necessary as of now. I have a few questions....
1. When pulling the head, its pretty much like this...airbox, AFM, fuel rail, intake manifold, accesory belts, timing belt cover, timing belt, distributor, sensors, and valve cover come off, then you get to pull the head?
2. Do you leave the headers attached to the head and disconnect them from the y-pipe below (what a PITA that was) or do you disconnect the headers from the head? I think I might need to have my headers welded so it doesn't really make a difference either way because they will have to come out anyways...which way is easier though?
3. Is this the best time for me to get my head re-worked since it will be off the car anyways? I don't think much is wrong with it except I seem to have a little seapage from the valve seals (blue smoke for a hot second on start up of a cold motor) but thats about all I know that needs addressing. How much are all of the parts that would normally be replaced during this operation (valve guides, seal set, etc.)? I can get cheap machine work done from a guy who knows his **** (he does mostly performance honda heads) but I need to know what should be replaced while doing it.
4. If I am getting machine work done, I might as well consider a 5 angle grind, port matching, etc. How much of a difference does this make? Should I get the head o-ringed while its out?
5. Wide fire ring head gasket, copper, etc...what kind of HG should I get so this doesn't happen again any time soon? I figure it blew from old age or something...I run 16 psi with a 3 bar regulator and APE stage II chips, and I had my injectors rebuild recently along with a new fuel pump and hoses...my air/fuel meter always shows 1 bar rich...I don't think detonation was the cause of this.
6. Are raceware studs worth the money? They are pretty expensive, but if I ever have to pull the head off again, I would like to be able to re-use the studs.
7. Any other questions or comments are welcome.
Sorry for the longness...I am just really pissed and am seriously considering cutting my losses and selling this car after I fix it for whatever I can get for it. Maybe I'll get a nice used toyota echo with what I make from the sale!
To make a long story short, I was driving my car less vigorously than I normally do last night, it started sounding like it was running on 3 cylinders, after a while it started smelling like burnt pancakes, and a while longer huge puffs of white smoke started coming out of the exhaust. It ran on all 4 with no burnt pancake smell and no white smoke when it was on boost and when a cold motor was first started for a couple of minutes. I lost a gallon and a half of coolant in a day's time. I think I blew my head gasket, proceed to the questions in bold.
I drove down to DC on saturday, went and picked up a couple friends from a hotel next to the convention center, and we drove down to georgetown. I wasn't running my car all that hard really...once or twice when I would go through a tight underpass or a tunnel I would gun it just to hear the sounds, but that was about it. As I get into georgetown, I notice that my car is running funny at idle.
Idle is a perfect 950 RPMs, but it sounds kind of like a v-twin harley...after I would get the motor over 3000 RPMs in neutral or above idle in gear, the weird sound would go away. I figured it was just misfiring on one cylinder and it was probably a bad spark plug...not a big deal I thought...I can pick up a new set of plugs tomorrow.
Well, at the end of a night out in georgetown (I was DD) I had to return my friends back to thier hotel, then drive back to my rooommate's parents house in georgetown where we were staying the night. I popped the hood, wiggled the plug wires, went in the car, started it up, and it only made the funny misfiring sound for a second, then returned to a smooth idle. It was nothing I thought, just some strange quirk in my car.
On the way to return them to their hotel, the car continued to run flawlessly, except some strange huge bass thuds like a couple of 15" solo barics sounding out a bass drum. This was followed by a smell of burnt pancakes. I dropped them off, and as soon as I pulled away, the car started running like garbage. It felt like it was running on 3 cylinders unless it was under boost in which case it ran fine. I also noticed the burnt pancake smell getting stronger, and puffs of white smoke (sometimes huge clouds) coming out of my exhaust. My temperature started to rise, and the car was still running on 3 cylinders except when it was on boost.
I was only a block away from where I was staying when the temp light came on, telling me to pull the F over and turn the car off. I was lucky to find a spot right there.
Anyways, I was hoping that it was some fluke, but the only time I ever have had a temperature surge like that was when I would loose coolant (I have been loosing coolant consistantly...about a gallon every month or every other month, for about a year now, with no coolant leaks I could find...maybe I have had a cracked headgasket all along), so I know I lost a lot of coolant (I had just filled it up the night before and bled it because I replaced the hose I bursted on friday) in a short period of time.
I went to bed, and woke up hoping it was just a bad dream, but when I went to go check out my car, it was almost completely dry of coolant. What was left in there smelled like gasoline. I knew by now that something hard and expensive to fix happened, like blowing a head gasket, but I went ahead and checked everything else to see if there was an explaination. No oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil...seems good so far, but a gasoline smell in the coolant and a loss of a gallon and a half of coolant in one day...
I figure I have had a crack in my head gasket for some time (this would explain my mysterious leakless coolant loss over the past year) and last night, the car just had enough (I wasn't ******* it hard at all last night either, which was strange) and the crack became a blow. Either this, or after my excursion last week and my hose blowing up, the sudden drop in pressure in the cooling system maybe caused something to happen. I don't really know. I figure it blew out between a coolant passage and a cylinder, with all of the oil passages through the head gasket being unscathed. The white burnt pancake smelling exhaust clouds are a good sign of a blown head gasket, as is what appears to be no pressure in one cylinder. When it would idle, I would look at my VDO boost gauge, and whenever it would stumble on that once cylinder, the vacuum would jump to less vacuum, and as it sat longer at idle, there would be less and less vacuum pulled until I revved it and let it settle back down.
I was able to make it to my parents house about 25 miles away as it doesn't seem to consume too much coolant when running at highway speeds (only 1/2 gallon in 25 miles) but now the car is sitting there and I had to have my dad drive me and my roommate back to school which is about 100 miles. I want to fix this myself, but have never pulled a head and don't have all of the tools necessary as of now. I have a few questions....
1. When pulling the head, its pretty much like this...airbox, AFM, fuel rail, intake manifold, accesory belts, timing belt cover, timing belt, distributor, sensors, and valve cover come off, then you get to pull the head?
2. Do you leave the headers attached to the head and disconnect them from the y-pipe below (what a PITA that was) or do you disconnect the headers from the head? I think I might need to have my headers welded so it doesn't really make a difference either way because they will have to come out anyways...which way is easier though?
3. Is this the best time for me to get my head re-worked since it will be off the car anyways? I don't think much is wrong with it except I seem to have a little seapage from the valve seals (blue smoke for a hot second on start up of a cold motor) but thats about all I know that needs addressing. How much are all of the parts that would normally be replaced during this operation (valve guides, seal set, etc.)? I can get cheap machine work done from a guy who knows his **** (he does mostly performance honda heads) but I need to know what should be replaced while doing it.
4. If I am getting machine work done, I might as well consider a 5 angle grind, port matching, etc. How much of a difference does this make? Should I get the head o-ringed while its out?
5. Wide fire ring head gasket, copper, etc...what kind of HG should I get so this doesn't happen again any time soon? I figure it blew from old age or something...I run 16 psi with a 3 bar regulator and APE stage II chips, and I had my injectors rebuild recently along with a new fuel pump and hoses...my air/fuel meter always shows 1 bar rich...I don't think detonation was the cause of this.
6. Are raceware studs worth the money? They are pretty expensive, but if I ever have to pull the head off again, I would like to be able to re-use the studs.
7. Any other questions or comments are welcome.
Sorry for the longness...I am just really pissed and am seriously considering cutting my losses and selling this car after I fix it for whatever I can get for it. Maybe I'll get a nice used toyota echo with what I make from the sale!
10-06-2002, 09:21 PM
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Hmmm..Sounds like a headgasket which isn't that bad...After all you said you were aware of this concern for over a year...Might be he o-rings / gasket on the oil filter housing???
A leakdown lest will tell for sure...
A leakdown lest will tell for sure...
10-06-2002, 09:36 PM
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Most likely the head gasket... check your compression. If you are running on 3, you may want to take a look at your cyl walls in the one that isnt running. You may have a broken ring because of the excessive heat. And you would probably be losing coolant to the oil. Is your oil coffee colored?
Your procedure is correct, make sure you know what goes where when you put it back together. it would be a good idea to label vacuum hoses, because they are pretty important.
Disconnect the headers from the head and pry them toward the passenger side of the car.
I just swapped heads on my car and it took me about 7 hours.
Before you have your head machined, take a good look at your valves and check the surface of the head with a straight edge and feeler guage. The head only has a little bit of space that can be ground off. If you dont have to take off any material, it would be a good idea to have someone sand a little bit for you.
Have fun!!! Pray that you dont have any broken rings that cause cylinder scoring.
Good luck
Your procedure is correct, make sure you know what goes where when you put it back together. it would be a good idea to label vacuum hoses, because they are pretty important.
Disconnect the headers from the head and pry them toward the passenger side of the car.
I just swapped heads on my car and it took me about 7 hours.
Before you have your head machined, take a good look at your valves and check the surface of the head with a straight edge and feeler guage. The head only has a little bit of space that can be ground off. If you dont have to take off any material, it would be a good idea to have someone sand a little bit for you.
Have fun!!! Pray that you dont have any broken rings that cause cylinder scoring.
Good luck
10-06-2002, 10:10 PM
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A few things... since I have been there many times before.
[quote] Disconnect the headers from the head and pry them toward the passenger side of the car. <hr></blockquote>
No. Leave them on the head. Just remove the 6 bolts at the "Y"'s and they will come right out. (with the head) Much easier than fiddling with the header nuts.
Just go with the widefire headgasket. If you run a copper gasket and have a problem, you will burn a piston, valve, or the head itself. Head gaskets are designed to blow if there is a problem. No need to O ring unless you plan on 25+psi of boost.
If you are going to spend the money on head work, you might as well do it now while it is out and apart. Have new seats and seals installed. Cost me $125 for a 5 angle job and a complete rebuild. (I supplied the seats and seals) Port and polish if you really want. I don't see the advantage unless you are going to run mucho boost.
Racewares are a good idea. They eliminate that feeling of "I wonder if that bolt stretched" when you put it back together. Also, if you pull the head again, you will need to buy them then. Retorque stock studs no more than 2 times. I am installing Racewares in the bottom end of my motor right now. I am not taking chances. I did the head studs a while ago.
Finally, just follow the manual to make sure you get everything right. It is not a hard job, just takes a little time, and some concentration. Oh.. label the vac lines well. You'll thank us later.
Good luck!
[quote] Disconnect the headers from the head and pry them toward the passenger side of the car. <hr></blockquote>
No. Leave them on the head. Just remove the 6 bolts at the "Y"'s and they will come right out. (with the head) Much easier than fiddling with the header nuts.
Just go with the widefire headgasket. If you run a copper gasket and have a problem, you will burn a piston, valve, or the head itself. Head gaskets are designed to blow if there is a problem. No need to O ring unless you plan on 25+psi of boost.
If you are going to spend the money on head work, you might as well do it now while it is out and apart. Have new seats and seals installed. Cost me $125 for a 5 angle job and a complete rebuild. (I supplied the seats and seals) Port and polish if you really want. I don't see the advantage unless you are going to run mucho boost.
Racewares are a good idea. They eliminate that feeling of "I wonder if that bolt stretched" when you put it back together. Also, if you pull the head again, you will need to buy them then. Retorque stock studs no more than 2 times. I am installing Racewares in the bottom end of my motor right now. I am not taking chances. I did the head studs a while ago.
Finally, just follow the manual to make sure you get everything right. It is not a hard job, just takes a little time, and some concentration. Oh.. label the vac lines well. You'll thank us later.
Good luck!
10-06-2002, 11:30 PM
#7
Yup, Sure sounds like the head gasket. Lots of good advise so far.
I have one additional consideration. Get the coolant out of the dead cylinder and flush the oil as soon as possible. The crank case has most probably been contaminated with coolant.
I had the HG go on my 951.
I pulled the spark plugs, and used a small hand pump to remove as much coolant as possible through the spark plug hole, then shot a good amount of marvel mystery oil directly into the cylinder to protect the rings while working to take the head off.
I have one additional consideration. Get the coolant out of the dead cylinder and flush the oil as soon as possible. The crank case has most probably been contaminated with coolant.
I had the HG go on my 951.
I pulled the spark plugs, and used a small hand pump to remove as much coolant as possible through the spark plug hole, then shot a good amount of marvel mystery oil directly into the cylinder to protect the rings while working to take the head off.
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10-07-2002, 12:19 AM
#8
also, if you're mechanically inclinded... I can send you a complete detailed walk through of changing a headgasket... just lemme know
I'm hoping after next weekend, I'll be semi-aware of how to do one, should I, God forbid, ever have to change another one
I'm hoping after next weekend, I'll be semi-aware of how to do one, should I, God forbid, ever have to change another one
10-07-2002, 03:20 AM
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I've done the head job with both the manifold on and off. I personally prefer pulling the studs out of the head and leaving it at that (the last time I had to take the headers apart at the y union 4 of those 6 bolts needed to be melted through with a plasma cutter so maybe I'm biased!). If you can find a stud extractor it's worth the few bucks (if not I may be able to hook you up, let me know).
If you've done a timing belt before, this isn't all that much more work IMO. Very much easier than doing anything that involves turbo removal I do believe you've done that. Anyway, I have rebuilt a couple of 944s never with new studs no problems so far. I know a few people who also have not replaced studs with no problems, then again there are those that claim studs stretch and give you problems if you look at them the wrong way. I think I have about 5k miles on a 182?k mile engine running 19psi of boost, about half that after a rebuild and there are no stud related issues at this point (check the turbo boards for that compression post). I had another 944 that went over 40k miles after doing some headwork, orignial studs and no problems.
I can give you my cell # so you can give me a ring if you run into something DURING the gasket replacement.
One more thing, while the head is off, you could go ahead and replace the rings and with new con rod bearings and a headjob, you'll practically have a 'dirty rebuild' complete. (Phrase referred to when you rebuild an engine but do not replace the main bearings).
Ahmet
If you've done a timing belt before, this isn't all that much more work IMO. Very much easier than doing anything that involves turbo removal I do believe you've done that. Anyway, I have rebuilt a couple of 944s never with new studs no problems so far. I know a few people who also have not replaced studs with no problems, then again there are those that claim studs stretch and give you problems if you look at them the wrong way. I think I have about 5k miles on a 182?k mile engine running 19psi of boost, about half that after a rebuild and there are no stud related issues at this point (check the turbo boards for that compression post). I had another 944 that went over 40k miles after doing some headwork, orignial studs and no problems.
I can give you my cell # so you can give me a ring if you run into something DURING the gasket replacement.
One more thing, while the head is off, you could go ahead and replace the rings and with new con rod bearings and a headjob, you'll practically have a 'dirty rebuild' complete. (Phrase referred to when you rebuild an engine but do not replace the main bearings).
Ahmet
10-07-2002, 03:26 AM
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IF you have coolant in the oil, drain the oil AND the coolant. Refill the crankcase with new oil and run the car for between 30 and 60 seconds. Drain the oil again. THis way you will minimize the amount of damage to the bearings due to contamination with the coolant.
Just a suggestion..old rebuilder's trick....
Just a suggestion..old rebuilder's trick....
10-07-2002, 05:10 AM
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I'm sure these guy's know what they're talking about, but when my headgasket blew, it was an immediate thing- w/out warning- shut the car down immediately- it had lost all power- had to have it towed. Anyway, since I was paying to have the work done, I went ahead and bought a P&P and shaved head (Powerhaus) w/new lifters (on David's recommendation)- not sure it was all worth it though- should have rebuilt the whole engine first, as the extra compression (now 8.3) is sure to put a little more stress on the bottom end...
Godd luck,
Robby
Godd luck,
Robby
10-07-2002, 06:12 PM
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ElonDooberhead, Yeah, it runs like one spark plug or injector is unplugged...sounds like a harley.
MikeB...the only problem I was aware of was a mysterious slow coolant loss. There was never coolant in the oil or oil in the coolant, which was strange considering I'm 99% sure the HG is blown.
masterstevens, unfortunately the car is 100 miles away, so a compression check will have to wait until the soonest this weekend. The head probably won't come off until at least 2 weeks from now (too busy with school and stuff). I don't think it was a heat issue, so hopefully nothing is scored up and I have no broken rings. It ran 100% when it was under boost (no missing) which makes me think everything on the bottom end is gravy.
Perry, it sounds easier to just pull the head with the headers still bolted to them. I think I'll do it this way. I just got done reading danno's head gasket dissertation, and I'm not too sure the WFR HG is all that beneficial, but I'll look at my options. If I can scrounge the money, I'll probably do raceware studs, and I can probably get the machine work done for $150 or so, so it shouldn't be too big of a deal. I'm also going to replace as many of the vac lines with silicon as I can while I have the head off.
Turbopop...I didn't find any oil in the coolant and no coolant in the oil, so I don't think I'll need an oilchange just yet. Next weekend when I go back to where the car is I'll try to slurp out any coolant that dribbled into the cylinder(s).
ElonDooberHead...send me that stuff if you get a chance. The address to send it to should be richietommy@yahoo.com .
Ahmet, I'll probably need to find a stud extractor (what exactly is a stud extractor?) so if you can hook me up I'd appreciate it. Never done a timing belt, but it doesn't look like that much work and I'll go ahead and replace mine since it will all be apart. I'm pretty sure I'll get the raceware studs if I can get the $$$...money being the issue here. I probably won't be starting for a couple of weeks, but it would be good to have the # of someone I can call if I get stuck. Ahmet...I'll IM you about replacing the rings and stuff. I thought you had to disconnect the rods from the crank to get the pistons high enough to swap the rings. I'm not trying to pull the oil pan again (what a PITA that was) any time soon, and the rod bearings seem to be good after 2000 miles.
BobS...no oil in coolant, no coolant in oil...just sucking coolant through the motor.
Robby...I did the rod bearings recently so if I do have the head shaved a bit I'm pretty sure the bottom end will hold up. I'm still not sure what I am going to replace when and if I do a head job...at a minimum, valve seals and seats...maybe guides and lifters if they aren't too expense.
Thanks everybody! This sucks to have happened, but I think it will turn out okay in the end, and will be a worthwhile learning experience.
MikeB...the only problem I was aware of was a mysterious slow coolant loss. There was never coolant in the oil or oil in the coolant, which was strange considering I'm 99% sure the HG is blown.
masterstevens, unfortunately the car is 100 miles away, so a compression check will have to wait until the soonest this weekend. The head probably won't come off until at least 2 weeks from now (too busy with school and stuff). I don't think it was a heat issue, so hopefully nothing is scored up and I have no broken rings. It ran 100% when it was under boost (no missing) which makes me think everything on the bottom end is gravy.
Perry, it sounds easier to just pull the head with the headers still bolted to them. I think I'll do it this way. I just got done reading danno's head gasket dissertation, and I'm not too sure the WFR HG is all that beneficial, but I'll look at my options. If I can scrounge the money, I'll probably do raceware studs, and I can probably get the machine work done for $150 or so, so it shouldn't be too big of a deal. I'm also going to replace as many of the vac lines with silicon as I can while I have the head off.
Turbopop...I didn't find any oil in the coolant and no coolant in the oil, so I don't think I'll need an oilchange just yet. Next weekend when I go back to where the car is I'll try to slurp out any coolant that dribbled into the cylinder(s).
ElonDooberHead...send me that stuff if you get a chance. The address to send it to should be richietommy@yahoo.com .
Ahmet, I'll probably need to find a stud extractor (what exactly is a stud extractor?) so if you can hook me up I'd appreciate it. Never done a timing belt, but it doesn't look like that much work and I'll go ahead and replace mine since it will all be apart. I'm pretty sure I'll get the raceware studs if I can get the $$$...money being the issue here. I probably won't be starting for a couple of weeks, but it would be good to have the # of someone I can call if I get stuck. Ahmet...I'll IM you about replacing the rings and stuff. I thought you had to disconnect the rods from the crank to get the pistons high enough to swap the rings. I'm not trying to pull the oil pan again (what a PITA that was) any time soon, and the rod bearings seem to be good after 2000 miles.
BobS...no oil in coolant, no coolant in oil...just sucking coolant through the motor.
Robby...I did the rod bearings recently so if I do have the head shaved a bit I'm pretty sure the bottom end will hold up. I'm still not sure what I am going to replace when and if I do a head job...at a minimum, valve seals and seats...maybe guides and lifters if they aren't too expense.
Thanks everybody! This sucks to have happened, but I think it will turn out okay in the end, and will be a worthwhile learning experience.
10-07-2002, 06:20 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by ribs:
Robby...I did the rod bearings recently so if I do have the head shaved a bit I'm pretty sure the bottom end will hold up. I'm still not sure what I am going to replace when and if I do a head job...at a minimum, valve seals and seats...maybe guides and lifters if they aren't too expense.<hr></blockquote>
Cool- then you should be fine. But, did you do the rings? This might be the time- my mechanic keeps telling me that I should have just removed the engine and done the rings and bearings, etc- full rebuild, when we did the head, since I needed to do the oil pan gasket anyway- still do of course... He says the bearings and rings are pretty much the whole rebuild, except for some in the rear- main maybe? Not sure, but I guess you did your rod bearings w/your oil pan didn't you? You did do the oil pan gasket, or am I just tripping again? If so, did you consider replacing the pan? Are there any upgrade pans available, other than the baffling stuff? Did you even consider that? I'm trying to decide on some of this stuff- not sure what it's all worth...
good luck,
Robby
Robby...I did the rod bearings recently so if I do have the head shaved a bit I'm pretty sure the bottom end will hold up. I'm still not sure what I am going to replace when and if I do a head job...at a minimum, valve seals and seats...maybe guides and lifters if they aren't too expense.<hr></blockquote>
Cool- then you should be fine. But, did you do the rings? This might be the time- my mechanic keeps telling me that I should have just removed the engine and done the rings and bearings, etc- full rebuild, when we did the head, since I needed to do the oil pan gasket anyway- still do of course... He says the bearings and rings are pretty much the whole rebuild, except for some in the rear- main maybe? Not sure, but I guess you did your rod bearings w/your oil pan didn't you? You did do the oil pan gasket, or am I just tripping again? If so, did you consider replacing the pan? Are there any upgrade pans available, other than the baffling stuff? Did you even consider that? I'm trying to decide on some of this stuff- not sure what it's all worth...
good luck,
Robby
10-07-2002, 06:28 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Robby:
<strong>
Cool- then you should be fine. But, did you do the rings? This might be the time- my mechanic keeps telling me that I should have just removed the engine and done the rings and bearings, etc- full rebuild, when we did the head, since I need to do the oil pan gasket now. I needed to then, so should have gone ahead and done it. Anyway, he says that the bearings and rings are pretty much the hole rebuild, except for some in the rear- main maybe? Not sure, but I guess you did your rod bearings when you did the oil pan didn't you? You did do the oil pan gasket, or am I just tripping again? If so, did you consider replacing the pan? Are there any upgrade pans available, other than the baffling stuff? Did you even consider that? I'm trying to decide on some of this stuff- not sure what it's all worth...
good luck,
Robby</strong><hr></blockquote>
If I can replace the piston rings while the head is off then I will probably do so then. The crank has to come out (so the whole motor has to come out) to do the main bearings, so I didn't f with those when I did the oil pan gasket and rod bearings because I did the procedure with the engine in the car (I kind of wish I pulled it and did the head gasket and rebuilt the head while it was out since it was getting near that time anyways...I could have done a full dirty rebuild...a rebuild without overboring the cylinders and oversizing the pistons in not too much more time than it took me to do what I did before). The main reason I did the rod bearings was because I had 3 or 4 bad leaks from my oil pan gasket and since I was in there anyways I went ahead and replaced the rod bearings. There are no upgraded oil pans AFAIK, but I did do the updated baffle (I think your car has it already) and I had a stainless steel ring welded around the oil pick up screen to effectively extend the pick up tube so as it sucks up oil better in high cornering force situations. For you, your best bet would be to get your oil pick up tube modified when you have the oil pan off since it will probably cost you $30 or $40 to have a shop do it and it is additional peace of mind.
<strong>
Cool- then you should be fine. But, did you do the rings? This might be the time- my mechanic keeps telling me that I should have just removed the engine and done the rings and bearings, etc- full rebuild, when we did the head, since I need to do the oil pan gasket now. I needed to then, so should have gone ahead and done it. Anyway, he says that the bearings and rings are pretty much the hole rebuild, except for some in the rear- main maybe? Not sure, but I guess you did your rod bearings when you did the oil pan didn't you? You did do the oil pan gasket, or am I just tripping again? If so, did you consider replacing the pan? Are there any upgrade pans available, other than the baffling stuff? Did you even consider that? I'm trying to decide on some of this stuff- not sure what it's all worth...
good luck,
Robby</strong><hr></blockquote>
If I can replace the piston rings while the head is off then I will probably do so then. The crank has to come out (so the whole motor has to come out) to do the main bearings, so I didn't f with those when I did the oil pan gasket and rod bearings because I did the procedure with the engine in the car (I kind of wish I pulled it and did the head gasket and rebuilt the head while it was out since it was getting near that time anyways...I could have done a full dirty rebuild...a rebuild without overboring the cylinders and oversizing the pistons in not too much more time than it took me to do what I did before). The main reason I did the rod bearings was because I had 3 or 4 bad leaks from my oil pan gasket and since I was in there anyways I went ahead and replaced the rod bearings. There are no upgraded oil pans AFAIK, but I did do the updated baffle (I think your car has it already) and I had a stainless steel ring welded around the oil pick up screen to effectively extend the pick up tube so as it sucks up oil better in high cornering force situations. For you, your best bet would be to get your oil pick up tube modified when you have the oil pan off since it will probably cost you $30 or $40 to have a shop do it and it is additional peace of mind.
10-07-2002, 06:52 PM
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I've heard something about Turbo S's having a slightly different baffling, but the baffling I'm talking about is what places like Powerhaus do, and is definately aftermarket. Some places sell oil pans that hold an extra couple of quarts, again, Powerhaus, w/upgraded oil coolers, etc...