Racers Edge arms overkill or not?
04-14-2010, 09:37 PM
#16
Race Director
The OEM Aluminum arms are MORE THAN FINE for a daily driver, occasional track car, auto-x, etc...etc....and in most cases even for the racers.
The upgraded/aftermarket arms are great items but definitely overkill for 98% of drivers. Not saying they are not a nice upgrade, especially the ones VT's BIL makes. But just buy a poly bronze kit (deluxe kit), or buy them rebuilt but either way the OEM's are very, very good.
Just my 2 cents.
The upgraded/aftermarket arms are great items but definitely overkill for 98% of drivers. Not saying they are not a nice upgrade, especially the ones VT's BIL makes. But just buy a poly bronze kit (deluxe kit), or buy them rebuilt but either way the OEM's are very, very good.
Just my 2 cents.
04-15-2010, 07:57 AM
#18
Race Car
I have damper envy (and I have Leda's).
04-15-2010, 08:15 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
The OEM Aluminum arms are MORE THAN FINE for a daily driver, occasional track car, auto-x, etc...etc....and in most cases even for the racers.
The upgraded/aftermarket arms are great items but definitely overkill for 98% of drivers. Not saying they are not a nice upgrade, especially the ones VT's BIL makes. But just buy a poly bronze kit (deluxe kit), or buy them rebuilt but either way the OEM's are very, very good.
Just my 2 cents.
The upgraded/aftermarket arms are great items but definitely overkill for 98% of drivers. Not saying they are not a nice upgrade, especially the ones VT's BIL makes. But just buy a poly bronze kit (deluxe kit), or buy them rebuilt but either way the OEM's are very, very good.
Just my 2 cents.
04-15-2010, 09:50 AM
#20
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Farmington, MI
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You can obviously buy the fabricated steel control arms from many sources, with bushings to your usage strategy, and have them gusseted/reinforced following the Blazcak recipe for virtually nothing. The steel to weld in is a few dimes, the actual welders time is not much more. Then paint or powder-coat to your liking and there you go. There's no rocket science here. The Blaszak approach can be duplicated at far below what aftermarket sources demand. What your left with is OE ball-joint replacement convenience at very low cost and a very strong lower arm incorporating the a/r bar mounting point to suit.
04-15-2010, 10:02 AM
#21
Former Vendor
I don't disagree ^^^ but that approach only works for early offset cars, and I'm not aware of ride height adjusting ball joint pins for the steel arms.
Another benefit of the "high strung" arms, as noted by an astute observer on 924board, is that they require the inboard camber adjusters, eliminating (or minimizing) the need for $500 "camber plates."
It's also worth noting that early offset cars would need to convert to the late 951/968 style castor block and eccentric adjuster, which are direct bolt-on, but not included on those cars, so would have to be sourced new or from a donor.
Eccentric adjuster is callout 3 in this diagram
Another benefit of the "high strung" arms, as noted by an astute observer on 924board, is that they require the inboard camber adjusters, eliminating (or minimizing) the need for $500 "camber plates."
It's also worth noting that early offset cars would need to convert to the late 951/968 style castor block and eccentric adjuster, which are direct bolt-on, but not included on those cars, so would have to be sourced new or from a donor.
Eccentric adjuster is callout 3 in this diagram
04-15-2010, 10:32 AM
#23
Instructor
Thread Starter
What year factory aluminum arms can be rebuilt? I ask because my driver's side arm appears to have the balljoint pressed in. There is no epoxy moisture barrier on the bottom of the arm. I'll have to post a pic and check the date stamp.
By the way, I called Racers Edge directly and they were very, very helpful and patient with all my questions. They seem to be a great, stand up company. I'll definitely be buying my camber plates from them as well. My concern comes from lowering the car and the amount of power it's going to have to handle. In addition, I plan on having a little fun at Sebring and that track is very punishing.
04-15-2010, 10:50 AM
#24
Former Vendor
I've never been able to pin down an exact model year range on the rebuildable vs. non-rebuildable arms. In my experience, the only way to tell is by visual inspection.
From my suspension upgrades thread:
From my suspension upgrades thread:
Originally Posted by ideola
Now, I learned something very useful in the last 24 hours. The late offset alu A-arms are not all rebuildable :evil: :evil: :evil:
The pair I got were removed by a reputable source from the same 1987 944S, but the RHS arm is a non-rebuildable version. The rebuildable arm (LHS) is part number 951.341.149.10; the non-rebuildable arm (RHS) is part number 944.341.150.02. Oddly neither of these part numbers show up in the parts catalog or on Pelican's search engine.
I'm not sure if the 944 vs. 951 part number is an indicator, but the dead giveaway as far as I can tell is that the cup that the ball joint sits in has a different casting between the two versions. In the following closeup, you can see the rebuildable arm on the left, and the non-rebuildable one on the right. You can also see in the profile shot how the one on the right has a different casting. Note also the removable circlip on the LHS arm. I believe one of the other ways to tell them apart is by the type of moisture barrier used (which I've already removed on both arms), but I'm not positive that this is conclusive. The rebuildable one had a dark amber type material that I had to heat up to remove. The non-rebuildable one had a light grey rubbery material that was easy to scrape away with a razor knife.
I'm in the process of tracking down a replacement for the RHS arm. When I get time, I'll update the appropriate suspension-related threads with this new, crucial bit of info.
The pair I got were removed by a reputable source from the same 1987 944S, but the RHS arm is a non-rebuildable version. The rebuildable arm (LHS) is part number 951.341.149.10; the non-rebuildable arm (RHS) is part number 944.341.150.02. Oddly neither of these part numbers show up in the parts catalog or on Pelican's search engine.
I'm not sure if the 944 vs. 951 part number is an indicator, but the dead giveaway as far as I can tell is that the cup that the ball joint sits in has a different casting between the two versions. In the following closeup, you can see the rebuildable arm on the left, and the non-rebuildable one on the right. You can also see in the profile shot how the one on the right has a different casting. Note also the removable circlip on the LHS arm. I believe one of the other ways to tell them apart is by the type of moisture barrier used (which I've already removed on both arms), but I'm not positive that this is conclusive. The rebuildable one had a dark amber type material that I had to heat up to remove. The non-rebuildable one had a light grey rubbery material that was easy to scrape away with a razor knife.
I'm in the process of tracking down a replacement for the RHS arm. When I get time, I'll update the appropriate suspension-related threads with this new, crucial bit of info.
04-15-2010, 12:59 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
I don't disagree ^^^ but that approach only works for early offset cars, and I'm not aware of ride height adjusting ball joint pins for the steel arms.
Another benefit of the "high strung" arms, as noted by an astute observer on 924board, is that they require the inboard camber adjusters, eliminating (or minimizing) the need for $500 "camber plates."
It's also worth noting that early offset cars would need to convert to the late 951/968 style castor block and eccentric adjuster, which are direct bolt-on, but not included on those cars, so would have to be sourced new or from a donor.
Eccentric adjuster is callout 3 in this diagram
Another benefit of the "high strung" arms, as noted by an astute observer on 924board, is that they require the inboard camber adjusters, eliminating (or minimizing) the need for $500 "camber plates."
It's also worth noting that early offset cars would need to convert to the late 951/968 style castor block and eccentric adjuster, which are direct bolt-on, but not included on those cars, so would have to be sourced new or from a donor.
Eccentric adjuster is callout 3 in this diagram
Last edited by vt951; 04-15-2010 at 02:10 PM.
04-15-2010, 02:09 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
04-15-2010, 03:49 PM
#29
TRW got a contract to build control arm for the 968....They got to put on an INTEGRAL balljoint arm at big$$$ while Porsche got to pan out yet another part to another manufacturer..... Where's that list of manufacturers involved in building these cars?
POPP
POPP
04-15-2010, 08:19 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
Lots of options in late model VW/Audi parts, for those who want to mix/match/modify...
In no particular order:
http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MK13006
http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MK13002
http://gwl.rmsolo.org/hacks/suspension/
http://members.multimania.co.uk/pipe...suspension.htm
http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=155801
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...orrection.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...-uprights.html
http://www.autometricsmotorsports.co...rley/index.htm
http://www.pmwltd.com/
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ID=33326775551
http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/view...=24134&start=0
http://www.volksport.org/forums/inde...owtopic=12346&
http://www.h2sport.com/products.php?productid=215
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_h...ittspindle.htm
Enjoy!
In no particular order:
http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MK13006
http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MK13002
http://gwl.rmsolo.org/hacks/suspension/
http://members.multimania.co.uk/pipe...suspension.htm
http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=155801
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...orrection.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...-uprights.html
http://www.autometricsmotorsports.co...rley/index.htm
http://www.pmwltd.com/
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ID=33326775551
http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/view...=24134&start=0
http://www.volksport.org/forums/inde...owtopic=12346&
http://www.h2sport.com/products.php?productid=215
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_h...ittspindle.htm
Enjoy!