steve g

For my 968 DE car which will see some street driving time - which will not bear on my decision. DE driveability is the priority. My skill level is intermediate.

What was/is the design difference between the Escort or Firehawk suspension ?

I will be running 968 M030 swaybars and higher rate springs and camber plates although not yet detemined whose camber plates and final spring rates.

Thanks !

mikey_audiogeek

Quote from Dan @ Windward:

They are totally different configurations and are built with very different Bilstein strut bodies.
The AK-1110 and 1111 struts are designed to bolt on to the factory set-up utilizing the larger winding variable/progressive rate factory style springs, etc. They are partially threaded and height adjustable based on this set-up with these springs, and the valving will accommodate up to about a 400# spring on a stock weight or moderately lightened car. (We recommend the 250# median rate progressive Eibachs for street/sport or light track/autocross use.)
The AK-1120 and 1121 struts are set-up for a true coil-over arrangement utilizing a completely different spring set-up(2.25" i.d. linear rate racing springs) and feature the actual fully-threaded racing bodies and valving to accommodate up to about a 750# spring rate on a significantly lighter car. There are also many differences in the upper mounts, upper hats, hardware, etc., and in addition are specifically designed for use with the rear coil-over as well.
(*Note--as with any Bilstein set-up, custom valving and set-up is available. We routinely have the actual Cup systems valved, sprung, and set up for street/sport driving for the street customers who want the benefits of an adjustable coil-over system for aggressive driving.)
If you delete the swaybar upgrade package from the quote, it would be $1499.00, but I would strongly recommend the entire package. Not only will you save quite a bit of money, but you will be assured of a perfectly balanced, tuneable suspension. (Don't even consider the cheesy, drop-link-snapping Weltmeister bars--they are garbage.)

mikey_audiogeek

http://951forums.com/forums/index.php?topic=1066.0

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...treetable.html

steve g

Thank Mikey

I did the search too and saw that thread from 2004. I havent seen EYAL951 or MattH in a long time.

I was hoping to find get more feedback from current users of the Escort or Firehawk setup.

These are the Firehawk, correct ?
The AK-1110 and 1111 struts are designed to bolt on to the factory set-up utilizing the larger winding variable/progressive rate factory style springs, etc.

These are the Escort, correct ?
The AK-1120 and 1121 struts are set-up for a true coil-over arrangement utilizing a completely different spring set-up(2.25" i.d. linear rate racing springs) and feature the actual fully-threaded racing bodies and valving to accommodate up to about a 750# spring rate on a significantly lighter car.

Would the factory 968 M030 bars work well or better with either package ?
I don't plan to delete the torsion bars but would go with a stiffer spring setup.

hp18racer

I've used both. For a car that still sees street duty I liked the Firehawk setup with 968 M030 sways. For me the Escort stuff is just too stiff for the street. Still, very much a matter of personal taste.

mikey_audiogeek

I'm still not sure on the difference between the Firehawk and Escort struts. What I do know is that the 380/150 damping ratio strut is K4 VE3 62512M0 and is what I have. So I guess I have Firehawk front and Escort rear.
M030 bars work great with these, BUT:

There is a long-standing philosophy with Bilsteins: Stiff springs, soft bars and lower tyre pressures (compared to Koni). If your springs are too soft, Bilsteins are harsh.

Good luck!

Mike

Joel8005

Interested in keeping this thread alive.... any of you track guys running either of these setups?

steve g

I plan to order the M030 swaybars use rubber OEM end bushings and the split delrin bushings on the center of the front bar.

My preference is to order one of the packages including the camber plates and higher spring rates.

It would be great to get feedback on the pros/cons of elimating the torsion bars based on using one of the following setups.

Bilstein Firehawk:
http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Part...SFIREHAWK.html

Bilstein Escort Cup:
http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Pors...4-BIL-SUS.html

Koni
http://www.paragon-products.com/Coil...ni_cup_kit.htm

Potomac-Greg

I can back this up. I have Escorts and M030. I have stiff springs (600/650) but the shock valving on the Escorts is what you notice the most. It's a very firm, harsh setup. Great for the track and for smoooooooth roads.

Joel8005

Greg, With or without torsion bars?

Potomac-Greg

With for a year (with much softer rear springs). Now without t-bars. Most of the harshness is actually transmitted via the front springs/shocks.

mikey_audiogeek

Another thread on the topic:

https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...rsion-bar.html

Here's some more info:

https://rennlist.com/forums/7195914-post23.html