My 968 Turbo is finished, pics and details!
09-04-2002, 09:09 AM
#31
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Olli Snellman:
<strong>Since this conversion is also available for 944 n/a, i know this will rise up lots of questions.Turbo charging a 968 is not bad at all, because there is allready good BRAKES under it.What comes to 944 n/a it's a total different story.N/a was not designed to have that much power what turbo offers.Why would factory put even to S2 (little over 200 hp) the same brakes as 951 has !
Olli
'88 951</strong><hr></blockquote>
Upgrading the brakes is not really that hard, Olli. I agree with you, do the brakes and suspension bits first, then add the HP.
Tifo
<strong>Since this conversion is also available for 944 n/a, i know this will rise up lots of questions.Turbo charging a 968 is not bad at all, because there is allready good BRAKES under it.What comes to 944 n/a it's a total different story.N/a was not designed to have that much power what turbo offers.Why would factory put even to S2 (little over 200 hp) the same brakes as 951 has !
Olli
'88 951</strong><hr></blockquote>
Upgrading the brakes is not really that hard, Olli. I agree with you, do the brakes and suspension bits first, then add the HP.
Tifo
09-04-2002, 10:24 AM
#32
Three Wheelin'
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John, as I said, congrats to all involved! Looks like a really pro job. It's nice to see that someone realizes that not everybody wants to go the extreme route in in modding a car into a potential hand grenade... 
Personally, I wouldn't mind having an extra 2-300 hp , but _not_ at the expense of reliability & reasonable longevity. Looks like this car will have noticably better performance while being very easy to live with on a daily basis.
Any chance that you'll be offering this as a shippable kit for the advanced DIY'er to install at home? Depending on pricing, I very well might be interested in a few months.
Jim, "Two drinks I've never heard ordered.. rum & Pepsi, and a vodka-Coke...."
Personally, I wouldn't mind having an extra 2-300 hp
, but _not_ at the expense of reliability & reasonable longevity. Looks like this car will have noticably better performance while being very easy to live with on a daily basis.Any chance that you'll be offering this as a shippable kit for the advanced DIY'er to install at home? Depending on pricing, I very well might be interested in a few months.
Jim, "Two drinks I've never heard ordered.. rum & Pepsi, and a vodka-Coke...."
09-04-2002, 12:20 PM
#33
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this has got to be the most logical mod for the NAs that has been done (sure is a lot of listers eating crow right about now ). although you'll not see my name in any of the topics of this type of conversion, i have been following them. what kills me is that those that say you had to do this and that for this to work, well i've gotta hand it to you John & Tim and all of the others that worked on this project. it looks wonderfull and i'm sure it drives just the same.
i know i've been kinda critical of the superchargers that the speedforce crew pumped out but this is more along the lines of what the tuners should've been doing all along (my opinoin). i 'm glad i had no negative words to say about the NA to turbo conversion,i knew it could be done, it was just a matter of someone doing so i would fall flat on my face tring to do it
gotta couple q's though. how is it mounted? i suspect that you used a turbo motor mount arm. did you have to change the water pump to a turbo pump for the cooling? and when is the kit coming out for the 8v cars ? i want one of these. please keep the price down, since there really isnt any R&D to this (other than the pipe for the 968)
and again DAMN good job fellas.
i know i've been kinda critical of the superchargers that the speedforce crew pumped out but this is more along the lines of what the tuners should've been doing all along (my opinoin). i 'm glad i had no negative words to say about the NA to turbo conversion,i knew it could be done, it was just a matter of someone doing so i would fall flat on my face tring to do it
gotta couple q's though. how is it mounted? i suspect that you used a turbo motor mount arm. did you have to change the water pump to a turbo pump for the cooling? and when is the kit coming out for the 8v cars ? i want one of these. please keep the price down, since there really isnt any R&D to this (other than the pipe for the 968)
and again DAMN good job fellas.
09-04-2002, 08:57 PM
#34
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[quote]Originally posted by John Anderson:
We are very proud of the conversion<hr></blockquote>Based on what I can see in the pictures you should be. [quote]Here is a list of what we wanted and achieved.
Keep the conversion low cost.<hr></blockquote>Can't agree on this. The goal as I recall was something in the $3500 range, not $4900.
[quote]Give an honest power gain, no hype.<hr></blockquote>Remains to be seen what the gains actually are.
[quote]Be reliable.<hr></blockquote>Far from proven yet. A few hundred miles is not a test. Go 6 months without blowing a head gasket or frying some other components and then you can claim this.
[quote]Be easy on the eyes.<hr></blockquote>Won't argue with you there. It does look very nice.
We are very proud of the conversion<hr></blockquote>Based on what I can see in the pictures you should be. [quote]Here is a list of what we wanted and achieved.
Keep the conversion low cost.<hr></blockquote>Can't agree on this. The goal as I recall was something in the $3500 range, not $4900.
[quote]Give an honest power gain, no hype.<hr></blockquote>Remains to be seen what the gains actually are.
[quote]Be reliable.<hr></blockquote>Far from proven yet. A few hundred miles is not a test. Go 6 months without blowing a head gasket or frying some other components and then you can claim this.
[quote]Be easy on the eyes.<hr></blockquote>Won't argue with you there. It does look very nice.
09-04-2002, 11:21 PM
#36
Race Director
Damn it luke..get the car on the friggin dyno already. is it still for sale? do you still want a slow *** 912?
keep the 951..buy a 90s honda accord for college commutes.
keep the 951..buy a 90s honda accord for college commutes.
09-04-2002, 11:21 PM
#37
Race Car
Thread Starter
[quote]Originally posted by Tom Pultz:
<strong>Can't agree on this. The goal as I recall was something in the $3500 range, not $4900.</strong><hr></blockquote>
True, that was the target kit cost. The increased cost includes labor for John to do the installation himself to ensure that everything is just right...more planning will need to be done if this conversion is sold to the public as a true DIY kit.
[quote]Originally posted by SamGrant951:
<strong>Damn it luke..get the car on the friggin dyno already.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hahah, seriously!
<strong>Can't agree on this. The goal as I recall was something in the $3500 range, not $4900.</strong><hr></blockquote>
True, that was the target kit cost. The increased cost includes labor for John to do the installation himself to ensure that everything is just right...more planning will need to be done if this conversion is sold to the public as a true DIY kit.
[quote]Originally posted by SamGrant951:
<strong>Damn it luke..get the car on the friggin dyno already.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hahah, seriously!
09-05-2002, 03:28 AM
#39
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Wow, if this thing puts out over 325 ft lbs this Sat, my dreams for the ideal 944 will be changed forever.
I swear, I will never get over how an Amazon Green 968 looks.
I swear, I will never get over how an Amazon Green 968 looks.
09-05-2002, 03:56 AM
#40
Burning Brakes
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Hi Tom,
Trevor pointed out the cost differnce. Yes, the kit would cost about 4900.00 installed at my shop.
It has only been a few hundred miles, but knowing Trevor, I'm sure the miles will start adding up at a pretty rapid pace :-)
Trevor will be dynoing the car this week I think, or next week...one or the other. I'm hoping for a modest 50hp gain, plus or minus. It is not intended to make 500hp, just a reasonable and honest gain. But so far, I have to say, it did pull pretty good :-)
We'll see.
Trevor pointed out the cost differnce. Yes, the kit would cost about 4900.00 installed at my shop.
It has only been a few hundred miles, but knowing Trevor, I'm sure the miles will start adding up at a pretty rapid pace :-)
Trevor will be dynoing the car this week I think, or next week...one or the other. I'm hoping for a modest 50hp gain, plus or minus. It is not intended to make 500hp, just a reasonable and honest gain. But so far, I have to say, it did pull pretty good :-)
We'll see.
09-05-2002, 04:10 AM
#41
Burning Brakes
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Instigator,
We used the stock waterpump as it has the fitting for the turbo water pump already in use to a different location. BUT, after looking at the setup of the 968's cooling system I found a great solution without cutting or adding any hoses :-)
The hose that come from the back of the head, one to the heater, the other to the throttle on the 968, was used to feed water to the turbo. Sure its been circulated throught the head already, but hell, its only 175 degrees, more than enough of a temp drop to cool the turbo. For the exit of the turbo, I used the the other hose that runs from the throttle to the "T'd" coolant hose that goes to the resevoir. So basically, I ran the water backwrds from the 951 path through the turbo, no matter, its non directional anyway. This setup allowed me to use the same hoses, un modified, that were already there. Even the bends matched up, like it was meant to be :-)
YOur correct that we simply used the 951 motor mpount bracket to mount the turbo, its a no brainer. We also used the 951 oil drain tube, with the stock banjo inserted into the plugged hole on the 968 oil pan. Again, that was already there, we just had to remove the threaded plug, and insert the oil drain kit.
About the only thing I had to do that was not already available, was drill and tap the upper balance shaft cover for the oil feed banjo fitting from the 951. But that entire process took about 20 minutes, to remove, drill and tap, the cover and reinstall the belt. No biggie.
An 8 valve kit is available. Call me for the details on that one. Or email me in private.
Hope this helps.
take Care.
We used the stock waterpump as it has the fitting for the turbo water pump already in use to a different location. BUT, after looking at the setup of the 968's cooling system I found a great solution without cutting or adding any hoses :-)
The hose that come from the back of the head, one to the heater, the other to the throttle on the 968, was used to feed water to the turbo. Sure its been circulated throught the head already, but hell, its only 175 degrees, more than enough of a temp drop to cool the turbo. For the exit of the turbo, I used the the other hose that runs from the throttle to the "T'd" coolant hose that goes to the resevoir. So basically, I ran the water backwrds from the 951 path through the turbo, no matter, its non directional anyway. This setup allowed me to use the same hoses, un modified, that were already there. Even the bends matched up, like it was meant to be :-)
YOur correct that we simply used the 951 motor mpount bracket to mount the turbo, its a no brainer. We also used the 951 oil drain tube, with the stock banjo inserted into the plugged hole on the 968 oil pan. Again, that was already there, we just had to remove the threaded plug, and insert the oil drain kit.
About the only thing I had to do that was not already available, was drill and tap the upper balance shaft cover for the oil feed banjo fitting from the 951. But that entire process took about 20 minutes, to remove, drill and tap, the cover and reinstall the belt. No biggie.
An 8 valve kit is available. Call me for the details on that one. Or email me in private.
Hope this helps.
take Care.
09-05-2002, 04:18 AM
#42
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I should add one more item, the throttle body was from a 951 also, this was a tad tricky. I needed to keep the stock injection and electrical system intact, so my only option was to use the TPS from the 968, and fit it to the 951 throttle body. I cut shortened the throttle post on the 951 throttlebody, about 1/4 inch short to accept the shallower 968 TPS, then made an adapter brack to mate the 968 TPS to the 951 throttle. The next Item to be done was making the 968 linkage work with the 951 intake plenum and throttle. I shortened the throttle cable, reinstalled the stock throttle end cap, to keep it clean looking, then made a bracket that bolted to the 951 plunum. I made another (I don't know what its called) little metal thingy for the end of the cable that allowed it to be heldinto the throttle cam of the 951. If you look closely at the pictures, you may be able to see what I'm talking about. Or maybe Trevor can post a few more detailed pictures?
Take Care!
Take Care!
09-05-2002, 08:41 PM
#45
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[quote]Originally posted by mideastmafia:
Tom Pultz,
why are you trying to be a dick?<hr></blockquote>What exactly do you mean little boy? I question the price (high) and the reliability (unproven) and that makes me a dick? You have a lot to learn about life little man.
Tom Pultz,
why are you trying to be a dick?<hr></blockquote>What exactly do you mean little boy? I question the price (high) and the reliability (unproven) and that makes me a dick? You have a lot to learn about life little man.