2003 Cars and Prices vs. my 951
08-30-2002, 12:19 AM
#1
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2003 Cars and Prices vs. my 951
Well, I've got good news and bad news. The bad news is the new cars are VERY EXPENSIVE and somewhat ugly. Just looked at Motor Trends new car preview issue and I didn't find anything I wanted to afford. 
The good news...
The 951 is paid for and out performs most of the cars in the preview. You'd have to admit, that while these cars have there ups and downs, you can do a whole lot of repairs for what the new car payments would be!
Besides, the 951 looks better than anything I saw today (well, maybe not the Panzo)!
The good news...
The 951 is paid for and out performs most of the cars in the preview. You'd have to admit, that while these cars have there ups and downs, you can do a whole lot of repairs for what the new car payments would be!
Besides, the 951 looks better than anything I saw today (well, maybe not the Panzo)!
08-30-2002, 10:37 AM
#2
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I couldn't have said it better myself!
No matter what you have to fix (barring a timing belt melt down), our beloved 944/951's are way cheaper than a newer ($20k) car!
And, I guaranty that if you park next to a modern Acura or Audi, someone will always walk by and say "Hey, that's a Porsche!"
A bargain by any standards! Now, if I can just fix my sunroof, and install rear speakers...
No matter what you have to fix (barring a timing belt melt down), our beloved 944/951's are way cheaper than a newer ($20k) car!
And, I guaranty that if you park next to a modern Acura or Audi, someone will always walk by and say "Hey, that's a Porsche!"
A bargain by any standards! Now, if I can just fix my sunroof, and install rear speakers...
08-30-2002, 01:04 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
I do agree that they are a bragain for looks and performance. But for me it is also an adiction.
For example, lets take my recently purchased 951. If I stopped at purchase price and just fixed what was wrong I think my total investment would be around 8K. That would involve the radiator swap i just did, fixing the AC (Might just need a charged) and having the front bumper/valance resprayed and seat covers. Not to shabby for a car with a K27/MAF/Adj FPR, considering it will run with my dads new E46 M3 (50K car).
But here is the problem, I have a list of things I want to do to the car a mile long.
1988 TurboS or 1989 spindle/hub, brake, swap.
Installing my leda's again.
Cat back
Test pipe
Wastegate
Boost control of some sort
Gagues (Air Fuel / Boost)
Racing seats
Hard pipes
Wheel / tire upgrade
Big Reds
SFR fuel lines
Rebuilt head w/ wide fire head gasket
2.8 or 3.0 build up
New dash
complete repaint w/ CF hood, nose pannel, rear bumper, 968 RS rear wing.....
But it is a fun addiction and it doesnt hurt anyone (with the exception of my walet)....
Anyway, I think my point was that I really don't have a point, no just kidding, my point is agree are cars are bargains, I just don't want to use it as a daily driver, the car is too old, I would take a nice Datsun Z with the track package as a daily driver though....Or the Audi RS6, my god what a beast.....
For example, lets take my recently purchased 951. If I stopped at purchase price and just fixed what was wrong I think my total investment would be around 8K. That would involve the radiator swap i just did, fixing the AC (Might just need a charged) and having the front bumper/valance resprayed and seat covers. Not to shabby for a car with a K27/MAF/Adj FPR, considering it will run with my dads new E46 M3 (50K car).
But here is the problem, I have a list of things I want to do to the car a mile long.
1988 TurboS or 1989 spindle/hub, brake, swap.
Installing my leda's again.
Cat back
Test pipe
Wastegate
Boost control of some sort
Gagues (Air Fuel / Boost)
Racing seats
Hard pipes
Wheel / tire upgrade
Big Reds
SFR fuel lines
Rebuilt head w/ wide fire head gasket
2.8 or 3.0 build up
New dash
complete repaint w/ CF hood, nose pannel, rear bumper, 968 RS rear wing.....
But it is a fun addiction and it doesnt hurt anyone (with the exception of my walet)....
Anyway, I think my point was that I really don't have a point, no just kidding, my point is agree are cars are bargains, I just don't want to use it as a daily driver, the car is too old, I would take a nice Datsun Z with the track package as a daily driver though....Or the Audi RS6, my god what a beast.....
08-30-2002, 01:37 PM
#5
Race Director
What other 12+ year old cars can you name that will out handle 90% of the cars made today, And won't break the bank in cost of ownership?
Maybe the Toyota MR2, Mazda Miata, and Acura Integra GS-R. But at the end of the day, they're all not Porsches!
Props to Porsche for making a timeless car!
-Zoltan.
Maybe the Toyota MR2, Mazda Miata, and Acura Integra GS-R. But at the end of the day, they're all not Porsches!
Props to Porsche for making a timeless car!
-Zoltan.
08-30-2002, 01:49 PM
#6
Got Nothin'
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Other than a new Porsche, I don't know of a new car that I would want. No other car on the road today is as fun to drive as my 944, and mine is a NA. No payments, just investments in its future.
08-30-2002, 02:33 PM
#7
Nordschleife Master
hum other old cars that are great handlers w/ a lot of potential is what I look for and there are a few.
BMW e30 series (M3 if you can get one) but these cars are loads of fun to drive and with a few simple suspenion mods can be made to handle incredibly well. Or for not to much cash you can swap a late BMW motor into it and have reliability and fun....
Datsun 240-280Z: Light weight, fun, cheap
Audi Coupe Quattro: K26 powered 5cyl turbo, Awd, it is a 951 plus two more drive wheels, albiet the styling is not as clean
And I would agree with the Miata, Integra RS-R, and the MR 2 as well.
I'm sure I could think of more....
And of course you can opt for other Porsches, 928, 914 fit the bill of fun cars to drive....
BMW e30 series (M3 if you can get one) but these cars are loads of fun to drive and with a few simple suspenion mods can be made to handle incredibly well. Or for not to much cash you can swap a late BMW motor into it and have reliability and fun....
Datsun 240-280Z: Light weight, fun, cheap
Audi Coupe Quattro: K26 powered 5cyl turbo, Awd, it is a 951 plus two more drive wheels, albiet the styling is not as clean
And I would agree with the Miata, Integra RS-R, and the MR 2 as well.
I'm sure I could think of more....
And of course you can opt for other Porsches, 928, 914 fit the bill of fun cars to drive....
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08-30-2002, 03:33 PM
#8
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by ian:
<strong>BMW e30 series (M3 if you can get one) but these cars are loads of fun to drive and with a few simple suspenion mods can be made to handle incredibly well. Or for not to much cash you can swap a late BMW motor into it and have reliability and fun....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Opps! Forgot about the BMW 3-series cars: they are also great carvers.
If you want to go back more than 12 years, then there's always:
Fiat & Alfa Romeo Spyders
BMW 2002tii
The REAL Minis
Lotus Elan
First gen RX-7
A couple of Triumphs (But reliability can be an issue)
Sorry for turning this thread into an "Old cars that handle great" thread!
-Z.
<strong>BMW e30 series (M3 if you can get one) but these cars are loads of fun to drive and with a few simple suspenion mods can be made to handle incredibly well. Or for not to much cash you can swap a late BMW motor into it and have reliability and fun....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Opps! Forgot about the BMW 3-series cars: they are also great carvers.
If you want to go back more than 12 years, then there's always:
Fiat & Alfa Romeo Spyders
BMW 2002tii
The REAL Minis
Lotus Elan
First gen RX-7
A couple of Triumphs (But reliability can be an issue)
Sorry for turning this thread into an "Old cars that handle great" thread!
-Z.
08-30-2002, 03:38 PM
#9
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by ian:
<strong>hum other old cars that are great handlers w/ a lot of potential is what I look for and there are a few.
BMW e30 series (M3 if you can get one) but these cars are loads of fun to drive and with a few simple suspenion mods can be made to handle incredibly well. Or for not to much cash you can swap a late BMW motor into it and have reliability and fun....
Datsun 240-280Z: Light weight, fun, cheap
Audi Coupe Quattro: K26 powered 5cyl turbo, Awd, it is a 951 plus two more drive wheels, albiet the styling is not as clean
And I would agree with the Miata, Integra RS-R, and the MR 2 as well.
I'm sure I could think of more....</strong><hr></blockquote>
91-94 Sentra SE-R. 140 bhp all aluminum 2 liter twin cam, 4 wheel discs, factory VLSD. Gobs of torque (unusual for a twin cam - we always pass 3-4 cars at the drop of the flag at SCCA races) It'll run will a 944 on the track all day and twice on Sunday. It'll outrun the Miata, GS-R, and MR2 on the track with ease. In the hands of novices it runs down bigger prey at DEs. If you want to deal with engine swaps there is a factory turbo engine that is a straight drop-in at 205 bhp. Even a stock one will totally embarrass a well tweaked A4 1.8T w/chip at the track (a friend outran another friend to the tune of 8 seconds per lap!).
The SE-R is an often overlooked car. Drive one if you get the chance. The proplem today is there were never as many of them as the Miata or GS-R. Now they are becoming hard to find in unabused condition.
<strong>hum other old cars that are great handlers w/ a lot of potential is what I look for and there are a few.
BMW e30 series (M3 if you can get one) but these cars are loads of fun to drive and with a few simple suspenion mods can be made to handle incredibly well. Or for not to much cash you can swap a late BMW motor into it and have reliability and fun....
Datsun 240-280Z: Light weight, fun, cheap
Audi Coupe Quattro: K26 powered 5cyl turbo, Awd, it is a 951 plus two more drive wheels, albiet the styling is not as clean
And I would agree with the Miata, Integra RS-R, and the MR 2 as well.
I'm sure I could think of more....</strong><hr></blockquote>
91-94 Sentra SE-R. 140 bhp all aluminum 2 liter twin cam, 4 wheel discs, factory VLSD. Gobs of torque (unusual for a twin cam - we always pass 3-4 cars at the drop of the flag at SCCA races) It'll run will a 944 on the track all day and twice on Sunday. It'll outrun the Miata, GS-R, and MR2 on the track with ease. In the hands of novices it runs down bigger prey at DEs. If you want to deal with engine swaps there is a factory turbo engine that is a straight drop-in at 205 bhp. Even a stock one will totally embarrass a well tweaked A4 1.8T w/chip at the track (a friend outran another friend to the tune of 8 seconds per lap!).
The SE-R is an often overlooked car. Drive one if you get the chance. The proplem today is there were never as many of them as the Miata or GS-R. Now they are becoming hard to find in unabused condition.
08-30-2002, 03:45 PM
#10
I recently looked around for a possible replacement for the old 951 and found nothing worth getting rid of it for. I drove the WRX, new Z28, and others. Nothing even comes close to how balanced and powerful the turbo is. The WRX was quick and fun, but still felt like a sedan (I know, it is), and the Z28 understeers lke mad and weighs a ton (or two).
For the price (including maint) nothing new that I can afford will get me out of the 951.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> (not in this order) <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
For the price (including maint) nothing new that I can afford will get me out of the 951.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> (not in this order) <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
08-30-2002, 04:43 PM
#11
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Tabo--I'm in New Jersey. I got the car FROM Boston, so that may be what you are thinking of?
Thanks for the offer though, and see my latest post re: stupid sunroof!
Thanks for the offer though, and see my latest post re: stupid sunroof!
08-30-2002, 07:22 PM
#12
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Geo,
I'm sure your car has a full cage in it. I had a Sentra in college. It wasn't an SE-R, but it still had some pep for an econo-box. Just don't hit anything with it.
I was doing some research in the library and I stumbled across an insurance rating book that stated that the Sentra had the highest fatality rate per accident.
You may want to slow it down on the track, but then you might get rear ended.
I'm sure your car has a full cage in it. I had a Sentra in college. It wasn't an SE-R, but it still had some pep for an econo-box. Just don't hit anything with it.
I was doing some research in the library and I stumbled across an insurance rating book that stated that the Sentra had the highest fatality rate per accident.
You may want to slow it down on the track, but then you might get rear ended.
08-30-2002, 07:25 PM
#13
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Geo:
<strong>
Even a stock one will totally embarrass a well tweaked A4 1.8T w/chip at the track (a friend outran another friend to the tune of 8 seconds per lap!)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Damn!!!! EIGHT seconds!!!!! Now that is either very fast or you guys were running on Nurberg Ring Norschiefe!
I do have to admit that the 944 Turbo even bone stock form is one of the best track cars around.
It will toast 90% of the cars on road today at any price. It is the performance car buy of the Century even with all the maintence Costs.
Stock turbos were 40k (86) to 50k ("S") when new and still perform like cars in that price range now.
Unfortunalty the 8v 2.5L 944 has always been just a bit underpowered, but is still an outstanding handling car. With just a few modifications for track duty they can chase down even M3's.
I remember a couple open track events chasing down a C5 vette (he was on track tires). He toasted my a$$ on drag strip straight away, but I made up all that ground in the turns and he even got the passing flag and pointed my by at the start of the main staight. He did not lift so i just tucked in behind him. I also remember a nice battle with 2 M3's and an M5. I passed the E46 M3 easily. (If figure he was not pushing too hard!) I caught up to the E36 M3. He was tougher since he was faster on the straights and I was faster in the corners, but not allowed to pass
.I end up between him and his friend in an older M5. Again the same story. I eventually got by, but too too much risk for an open track /DE even if it was in the "Fast" group. That is why i am looking to race the little 944 now.
Anyway time to quit my <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />
<strong>
Even a stock one will totally embarrass a well tweaked A4 1.8T w/chip at the track (a friend outran another friend to the tune of 8 seconds per lap!)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Damn!!!!
EIGHT seconds!!!!! Now that is either very fast or you guys were running on Nurberg Ring Norschiefe!I do have to admit that the 944 Turbo even bone stock form is one of the best track cars around.
It will toast 90% of the cars on road today at any price. It is the performance car buy of the Century even with all the maintence Costs.
Stock turbos were 40k (86) to 50k ("S") when new and still perform like cars in that price range now.
Unfortunalty the 8v 2.5L 944 has always been just a bit underpowered, but is still an outstanding handling car. With just a few modifications for track duty they can chase down even M3's.
I remember a couple open track events chasing down a C5 vette (he was on track tires). He toasted my a$$ on drag strip straight away, but I made up all that ground in the turns and he even got the passing flag and pointed my by at the start of the main staight. He did not lift so i just tucked in behind him. I also remember a nice battle with 2 M3's and an M5. I passed the E46 M3 easily. (If figure he was not pushing too hard!) I caught up to the E36 M3. He was tougher since he was faster on the straights and I was faster in the corners, but not allowed to pass
.I end up between him and his friend in an older M5. Again the same story. I eventually got by, but too too much risk for an open track /DE even if it was in the "Fast" group. That is why i am looking to race the little 944 now. Anyway time to quit my <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />
08-31-2002, 03:09 AM
#15
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by M758:
<strong>Damn!!!! EIGHT seconds!!!!! Now that is either very fast or you guys were running on Nurberg Ring Norschiefe!</strong><hr></blockquote>
They are very fast and very forgiving to drive. Very easy to drive fast and communicate well at the limit. They are geared extremely well too.
The track was one of the SoCal tracks - Willow Springs IIRC, but I'm not positive.
<strong>Damn!!!!
EIGHT seconds!!!!! Now that is either very fast or you guys were running on Nurberg Ring Norschiefe!</strong><hr></blockquote>They are very fast and very forgiving to drive. Very easy to drive fast and communicate well at the limit. They are geared extremely well too.
The track was one of the SoCal tracks - Willow Springs IIRC, but I'm not positive.