Robby

I've been considering a fire extinguisher for awhile now, and after seeing what happened to Perry's engine it's now, even more on my mind...

I want something small enough to be subtle, and lightweight, etc, but large enough (and/or strong enough) to put out a decent size/strength fire. I would like to be able to mount it in an easy to reach, yet out of the way, convenient location- maybe velcro(?) it to the rear floorboard or even upright to the rear wall right below the rear seat bottom cushion (if short enough). Anyway, I'm just looking for suggestions as to what kind to get, where to get it, and where and how to mount it, etc... I have a three extinguisher's in my apartment, that range from 5 - 15 years old, and am wondering if one of them might even work for me(?). They contain stuff like: dry chemical powders- monoammonium phosphate, mica, ammonium sulphate, sodium bicarbonate, and magnesium aluminum, etc...

Any input on this subject?

Thanks a lot,
Robby

Perry 951

You want a Halon, CO2, or 3 Gas extiguisher, The bigger the better. I went after my fire with one of the little Home Depot ones you hang in your kitchen. They are a dry powder, and are good enough for a small grease fire. It did not do much.

I ordered (2 days ago) a 5lb Halon extinguisher through my local fire department. If you go and ask, they will have their service rep call you.

As for the dry powder ones, you should turn them upside down once a year and break loose the settled powder. You should also have it refreshed every 5 years. I wish I would have ordered it sooner. It would have been nice to have.

jim968

Robby, nix on the velcro... in a roll-over, you've got a very solid, lethal missle flying around in the car.

Something with a metal band-clamp with a quick-release buckle is best, and placed where you can reach it from the driver's seat.

Having used CO2 on a couple of real fires in the Navy, I like it, but plan to research Halon before making a choice. Dry powder leaves a lot of abrasive residue (ask my toaster ).

Jim, AKA Mr. Flamin' Pop-Tart

ed devinney

I've got a 2.5lb Halon in the Brey-Krause bracket that attaches to the front of the seat rails on the pass side. The mount works well, but it really limits the passenger seat movement, making it difficult to access the rear if you need to. My daughter still fits, so no worries.

I've had extinguishers in my cars since I had a fire and ran around looking for something to put it out. I just *hate* feeling that stupid :-)

Steve Lavigne

In my old 944 NA, I had the fire extinguisher mounted in the middle of a harness bar between the seats. It worked great. I mounted it in a fire extinguisher mount, which I hose clamped onto the bar.

These days though, harness bars seem to be somewhat out of vogue considering the whole rollover issue... not being able to duck issue using four/five point belts.

Steve Lavigne
'86 951

Roy LaZelle

Does anyone have any words of wisdom on fighting an engine fire ?? A fire fighter told me that the trick in putting an engine fire out, was to leave the hood shut and shoot the fire extinguisher up into the engine bay from below. I would assume this applies to CO2 or halon, but not powder extinguishers. How about extinguisher size, any recommendations ??? I have a small halon extinguisher and hope that it would be big enough to work. --Roy--

Perry 951

With Halon or CO2 - When you notice the fire, grab the extinguisher, pop the hood, get out fast and give it a good 5 second shot from up under, by the headers. Then, if you can, pop the hood just enough to get the nossle in there and fire away. When the flames are knocked down, throw open the hood and empty the rest on it, and prey you have it all out.

Dry Powder ones do not work well on engine fires unless you get to it within the first few seconds. If you have dry powder, crack the hood and shoot like crazy. When the flames are down, open the hood and blast the rest onto the center of the fire, and work out to the rest of the engine bay. Again, prey that you have it all out.


The hood cable also melts rather quickley and it is very hard to get the hood open. That is why you pop it first (but do not open it until you blast from underneath!!!).

Mark944na86

So anyone have a good source for buying CO2 and/Halon extinguishers?

-Mark 86 944 NA

IceShark

Perry, now I know why you have had all these problems: you have been preying rather than praying! Sorry, had to make this spelling joke.

Unfortunately, guess your minor replacement bulbs for fogs will be on the back burner.

As far as Halon extinguishers, I thought Halon was heavier than air and would sink out if you don't have a sealed bottom. Very good for boats (have been around for decades there with automatic heat release triggers) but I'm not so sure about cars with open engine bays. Guess I wonder if they are more effective than alternatives given the substantially higher cost.

And as Jim noted, you want that sucker tied down good. Marine outfits sell stainless quick release buckle holddowns in most common bottle sizes for cheap - like 10 bucks.

VectorGuy

I agree with the shark, Halon is heavier and is most effective when added to the combustion from above. I suppose shooting it through the barely cracked hood would be the best approach with this logic, but that in itself sounds a lot like a bad idea. I realize opening the hood would allow the hot fumes (and flames) out, making room for more oxygen to be drawn up from below.

A friend used to sell Halon extinguishers and did a neat sales pitch show. He'd shoot some out into his hand (don't try this at home, kiddies) and you would watch it boil in your palm. Then wave your hand a few feet above a candle, and the candle would go out. The Halon dropped down and sucked the oxygen out of the air. I carry a 2.5 lb bottle, wrapped in a towel behind my seat. Sure, it's lame, but in case of spills, barf, or fire, I'm set, and in case of a rollover it would be at least a padded missle. Thank goodness I've only needed the towel portion of my emergency kit.

Perry 951

Having fought a good many of car fires (was an active fire fighter in New Jersey for 3 years, HAZ MAT Cert, Fire 3 Cert, Engineer Cert, and 3rd Lt. when I left) I am advising you just as it was taught to me, and with my own experience.

Halon is heavier than air, but if you shoot it up there, it has the same result as a CO2 charge. Halon works very very well on cars when you do crack the hood and fire away. If you get a good 5 second shot, there will be enough gas in the engine bay to slow the flames enough to crack the hood and go after it.

The only way you are going to put out the fire is to attack it from the top (if that is where the fire is happening.) So you must do what you can to reduce the heat and or air into the center of the fire. You never fully open the hood until it is out. You are right, you will draw more air into the fire from underneath if you have the hood open. However, unlatching it is not a big deal since there is enough of an air gap between the fenders, and that big hole we call a radiator. And a 1 inch crack to get the nossle in there is not a big thing. Your hands may get a little warm....

Having the hood cracked saves a lot of time when the firefighters show up with the hoses. They spent :30 seconds on mine trying to pop the hood open to get water on it. :30 seconds is a long time when a fire is raging. This is why I popped mine while I could. (would have been great if firefighter #1 would not have leaned on it while pulling the hose off the truck) I have rolled up on many car fire where if the hood was unlatched, we could have saved the car.

The best extinguisher is called a Tri Gas or 3 Gas. It is CO2, Argon, and Halon. Great multi purpose and good to have around. Hard to find someone that fills them.

jim968

I'll kick in one more comment...if there's _any_ practical way, get the battery disconnected ASAP. Once the fire's out, pad your hand with a rag & yank either cable loose if you can (panic tends to give you more strength than usual; twist as you pull). Depending on the damage done to wiring, the battery can be a source of re-ignition.

And yep, all good fire-fighting gasses are heavier than air; they pretty much have to be to work. None,AFAIK, are tailored for application from below. But the rising heat will suck them up into the engine bay, I expect.

Jim, "Reflash!!! Reflash!!!"

txhedg

Sounds like this might be a good thing to try to get a group purchase going to cut the price substantially????

Perry 951

Jim.. good point about the battery cable. I yanked it shortly after. (actually pulled the wire out of the clamp.. hee hee)

Roy LaZelle

How about a rule of thumb on what size fire extinguisher is considered (A) minimum (B)desirable, by those with engine fire fighting knowledge ?? --Roy--