Clutch dropped to the floor
03-26-2003, 09:40 AM
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Clutch dropped to the floor
I was on my way to a racquetball game last night and stopping at a red light. I pushed the clutch in to shift, but then couldnt shift in to first. With the car in neutral I let the clutch out and then pushed it in and again tried to shift in to first, and this time the clutch dropped to the floor so I rolled to the side of the road and yelled a lot.
There were no noises -- no thunks, no knocking or grinding gears.. It smelled really bad. Kind of like burnt rubber, but not quite. I pulled the clutch up with my hand and it seemed to work "normally," but I still couldn't shift in to gear (except 3rd and 4th).
It was dark out and I haven't had a chance to take a look yet, but there was no fluid on the ground when the wrecker left. So right now I really don't know a whole lot, but I'd like to get a few ideas so I'll know what to look for when I go check it out after work. Everyone's said something different so far -- its the transmission, the clutch master or slave cylinder.. Hopefully I'll hear some good news.
There were no noises -- no thunks, no knocking or grinding gears.. It smelled really bad. Kind of like burnt rubber, but not quite. I pulled the clutch up with my hand and it seemed to work "normally," but I still couldn't shift in to gear (except 3rd and 4th).
It was dark out and I haven't had a chance to take a look yet, but there was no fluid on the ground when the wrecker left. So right now I really don't know a whole lot, but I'd like to get a few ideas so I'll know what to look for when I go check it out after work. Everyone's said something different so far -- its the transmission, the clutch master or slave cylinder.. Hopefully I'll hear some good news.
03-26-2003, 09:51 AM
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Well, I would have jumped on the master & slave theory too except you mention "It smelled really bad." That makes me think you may have suffered a clutch rubber donut failure. That would be really bad news, so for now we'll hope it was only the slave letting go....B
03-26-2003, 10:17 AM
#4
I LOVE RAQUETBALL, I play everyday between classes!!
Lately, we've been doing this thing where if you let up a point you have to do 5 push-ups. That makes it real tough especially when you get a started doing them you keep having to do them because you get tired. My whole upper body is still sore from it, and I love every minute of it!
Anyways, I would check the slave and master cylinders to see if anything is leaking. If the slave is leaking you will have a puddle under the car, near the middle. If its the master it will leak down onto the carpet under the dash. It does sound like your rubber center blew out though.
Goodluck
Lately, we've been doing this thing where if you let up a point you have to do 5 push-ups. That makes it real tough especially when you get a started doing them you keep having to do them because you get tired. My whole upper body is still sore from it, and I love every minute of it!
Anyways, I would check the slave and master cylinders to see if anything is leaking. If the slave is leaking you will have a puddle under the car, near the middle. If its the master it will leak down onto the carpet under the dash. It does sound like your rubber center blew out though.
Goodluck
03-26-2003, 10:49 AM
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Alright, it seems to be the clutch, whether its the master or slave cylinder or the rubber center. Would a used clutch be alright, or is that something I'd really want to go ahead and get new?
03-26-2003, 11:49 AM
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Never put in a used clutch. One of the most expensive items in a repair is the labor - wether it's you or someone else. If you go for a used clutch, you'll just have to redo it again. I'm not even sure if I've ever heard of a used clutch.
03-26-2003, 12:19 PM
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Hmm, the rubber center on my clutch had gone completely and it wasn't until this failsafe metal piece broke its welds that the clutch finally failed. When it went, my pedal did go to the floor....i think...bit too frustrated to remember. BUT I do remember being able to shift into gear (any gear) with the pedal up off of the floor.
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03-26-2003, 12:26 PM
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If either the master or slave cylinder went bad, could it have taken the whole clutch out with it? That'd explain multiple symptoms.. I guess I should add that the car will still drive in 3rd and 4th gear (but of course I wouldn't want to).
03-26-2003, 01:23 PM
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I just called the shop, they told me for a cylinder job I'm looking at $500, ~$1500 for a new clutch. I'm in the Air Force and if I take it to the hobby shop here, all I need is the parts. They'll have the tools and people there can watch me and help me out, but I'd be doing the work myself (and with whatever friends I could round up). I didn't exactly grow up in the garage, but I've helped my dad pretty much rebuild his truck. What do you guys think, should I go ahead and try it myself or leave it to someone else?
03-26-2003, 01:27 PM
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I hope I'm not raining on your parade here, but I would highly recommend that you just take it to a shop and have it fixed. The clutch change is one of the most time consuming/difficult things you can do to a 944. Even with some tools and a lift it isn't a lot of fun. If your mechanic friends will help you, you might give it a shot...but honestly, if you haven't worked on this car a lot I would just take it in and have it fixed for you.
03-26-2003, 01:51 PM
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I beg to differ. The most time consuming part of the job is finding the tools. I've been around the Air Force Auto hobby shops (my dad is a Colonel). They are for the most part VERY well kept and have any tool I've ever needed. It will most likely take you a weekend to do the job yourself. Follow the directions from <a href="http://www.tech-session.com." target="_blank">www.tech-session.com.</a> They worked out great for me. The clutch change really was not that bad of a job...and you'll feel great afterwards at a job well-done!
Part of having these cars is to enjoy driving them, the other is to enjoy working on them....sometimes you end up working more than driving!!!
Part of having these cars is to enjoy driving them, the other is to enjoy working on them....sometimes you end up working more than driving!!!
03-26-2003, 02:00 PM
#13
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by F18Rep:
<strong> That makes me think you may have suffered a clutch rubber donut failure.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">If the rubber center is gone you would still have the metal tabs aka "failsafe" You wouldn't smell burning rubber. It was probably some brake fluid from the clutch burning on something hot. I don't see what would make the pedal go to the floor if the rubber center was gone.. The rubber center is gone in my clutch and it still drives great! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> for now anyways.
My bet is on the slave cyl, you may not see fluid leaking out because it is filling up your clutch bell housing. Take your starter off and it will probably dump out on your head!! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
Easiest way like someone said is to check the resevoir.
<strong> That makes me think you may have suffered a clutch rubber donut failure.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">If the rubber center is gone you would still have the metal tabs aka "failsafe" You wouldn't smell burning rubber. It was probably some brake fluid from the clutch burning on something hot. I don't see what would make the pedal go to the floor if the rubber center was gone.. The rubber center is gone in my clutch and it still drives great! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> for now anyways.
My bet is on the slave cyl, you may not see fluid leaking out because it is filling up your clutch bell housing. Take your starter off and it will probably dump out on your head!! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
Easiest way like someone said is to check the resevoir.
03-26-2003, 02:02 PM
#14
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Mike S:
<strong>..."Bankruptcy is temporary, Fun is Forever"
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
Anyway... for a first timer to do a clutch, yes it is very intimidating. But in reality, when you look at it from the second or third time around, it is all not that difficult if you have the correct tools and read the procedure described in Clark's Garage.
<a href="http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/clutch-01.htm" target="_blank">http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/clutch-01.htm</a>
First time I did it I swore I would not do it again... ever...
Having been there three times now, to change the rear main engine seal, it is really not that bad to do. Remember that you will need to remove the exhaust, the CVJ, the transmission, and a few other bits.
Tools I would strongly recommend you have to do this (besides those already listed in the document in Clark’s Garage):
Transmission lift – first time I tackle this job I did not have one… removing and installing the tranny was a major pita. With the tranny lift it was a piece of cake!! One-man job.
A good 12 point wrench set for the 8mm CVJ bolts and the 12mm Cheese head bolts at the flywheel (because since your are there might as well remove the flywheel and put in a new rear main engine seal). This is on the list… just wanted to stress the point that you should get a good set.
Torque wrench.
A Haynes manual.
Not a tool but a virtue… patience. You will need lots of it while doing this.
Also, go through some of the posts here to see a few photos of the process. Better than to go blind into it. And be careful not to break the flywheel sensors or the base... ask me how I know.
Good luck!!
<strong>..."Bankruptcy is temporary, Fun is Forever"
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
Anyway... for a first timer to do a clutch, yes it is very intimidating. But in reality, when you look at it from the second or third time around, it is all not that difficult if you have the correct tools and read the procedure described in Clark's Garage.
<a href="http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/clutch-01.htm" target="_blank">http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/clutch-01.htm</a>
First time I did it I swore I would not do it again... ever...
Having been there three times now, to change the rear main engine seal, it is really not that bad to do. Remember that you will need to remove the exhaust, the CVJ, the transmission, and a few other bits.
Tools I would strongly recommend you have to do this (besides those already listed in the document in Clark’s Garage):
Transmission lift – first time I tackle this job I did not have one… removing and installing the tranny was a major pita. With the tranny lift it was a piece of cake!! One-man job.
A good 12 point wrench set for the 8mm CVJ bolts and the 12mm Cheese head bolts at the flywheel (because since your are there might as well remove the flywheel and put in a new rear main engine seal). This is on the list… just wanted to stress the point that you should get a good set.
Torque wrench.
A Haynes manual.
Not a tool but a virtue… patience. You will need lots of it while doing this.
Also, go through some of the posts here to see a few photos of the process. Better than to go blind into it. And be careful not to break the flywheel sensors or the base... ask me how I know.
Good luck!!
03-26-2003, 02:31 PM
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None of your initial symptoms seem to indicate anything more serious than a hydraulic problem, unless there were earlier noises that you didn't mention....
Start by checking the fluid level in the master cylinder. It may just have gone low enough to suck air into the clutch system (fail safe system, clutch failure lets you know you need fluid before the brakes go out). If so, it just needs bleeding & a good check of both systems for leaks (fluid levels _do_ drop naturally over time).
If that ain't it, check for fluid leaks in the clutch hydraulics. Look under the car on / near the slave cylinder (just outboard of the starter; squeeze the boot), and inside on the firewall where the clutch pedal to master cylinder link goes into the firewall. Prepare to be a contortionist or take the driver's seat out. Check the sound-deadening material & carpet for fluid wetting, & squeeze the boot.
It's a PITA of a DIY job, but perfectly do-able. Check the archives here for threads with tips. Get your parts from Paragon or Zims, and get a Motive Power Bleeder to save major time & hassle. Be careful not to cross-thread metal fittings. but plenty of brake fluid, and keep it off your paint.
No. Clutch slave & master is _not_ a $500 job at a shop, unless they're including a lot of foreplay and plenty of Vasoline.
Jim, "Sex without love is a meaningless experience. But as meaningless experiences go, it's pretty dam' good."
Start by checking the fluid level in the master cylinder. It may just have gone low enough to suck air into the clutch system (fail safe system, clutch failure lets you know you need fluid before the brakes go out). If so, it just needs bleeding & a good check of both systems for leaks (fluid levels _do_ drop naturally over time).
If that ain't it, check for fluid leaks in the clutch hydraulics. Look under the car on / near the slave cylinder (just outboard of the starter; squeeze the boot), and inside on the firewall where the clutch pedal to master cylinder link goes into the firewall. Prepare to be a contortionist or take the driver's seat out. Check the sound-deadening material & carpet for fluid wetting, & squeeze the boot.
It's a PITA of a DIY job, but perfectly do-able. Check the archives here for threads with tips. Get your parts from Paragon or Zims, and get a Motive Power Bleeder to save major time & hassle. Be careful not to cross-thread metal fittings. but plenty of brake fluid, and keep it off your paint.
No. Clutch slave & master is _not_ a $500 job at a shop, unless they're including a lot of foreplay and plenty of Vasoline.
Jim, "Sex without love is a meaningless experience. But as meaningless experiences go, it's pretty dam' good."