red9four4

I am thinking of getting the coil over suspension kit offered by paragon products. Or I was thinking of just getting stiffer springs. I need help deciding on which to get.

Also where is a good place to get rear helper spings? (at an afordable price)

Luke

jsut get the 968 cs helper springs. (those egg ones)

red9four4

Lukesilver95186 :what are the 968 cs helper springs. (those egg ones)?

Skip

The choice is upgradability. The coil-over kit allows you to precisely adjust the front ride height (in most cases to lower it), and change it again easily. It also allows for an easy swap of different spring rates (100-1000#). The OE spring type replacement (Weltmeister 200# or 250#) will lower ride height and improve the handling characteristics. The lowered ride height *should* be matched in the rear by adjusting the spring plate eccentric or indexing the torsion bars.

I will mention that the inherent balance of the car may be changed when uprating the front springs without a proportional change to the rear. In your case, if the car is not now equipped with a rear stabilizer, this would be a good time to add one. This will aid in correcting any adverse handling from uprating the front spring rates.

The only OE helper spring type shocks were available on the 968 with sport suspension (M030)... these are rare find in good useable condition. There was a Turbo Cup rear coil-over shock for use on the Turbo Cup cars that are also ride height adjustable... these are an even more rare find in good useable condition.

There are many aftermarket options available for a rear coil-over.

Good Luck!

Danno

The Ground Control front coil-over kit from Paragon has been one of the most awesome upgrades I've ever done! As Skip says, adjustability is a great benefit since I can now corner-balance the car exactly perfect. And I can also change out springs and strut-inserts within 15-minutes at the track without messing up my alignment (strut stays on the car).

ian

I would also check out what Karl from the Racers Edge has to offer. Racers Edge

I stubled upon his webpage and gave him a call, it seemed like the products had a lot to offer. Then I saw a review in Grassroots Motorsports about the very same leda suspension that I was considering (firestarter on this board has that car). So I took the plunge and went to coil overs all around (bye bye torsion bar). The combination of hypercoil springs and 16 pt adjustable Leda struts is incredible. I have mine set up a little stiff for most tastes, but I love it. I have gone to the track a few times with this set up and all the instructors have told me that mine is one of the best handlnig 944's they have ever been in.

I am in no way affiliated with Racers Edge, or Karl, but I have been very happy with the the product so I thought I would share one more voice.

red9four4

thanks for all the help. i am going to get the coil over kit.

how hard is it to re-index the torsion bars?(what does this actully mean?)
how hard is it to change them?(how long will it take?)

Sean

Does anyone know the parts numbers and prices for factory OE M030?

Will the 968 M030 just "plug and play" with a NA 944?

I am interested in suspension upgrades; many say these are the best performance mods for the dollar. I have 030 on my Boxster and it is great; very firm ride, but it handles like it's on rails.

Skip

Torsion bars have splined ends, these spined ends fit into receivers inside the Torsion carrier, the receivers can be adjusted relative to each other to provide height adjustment changes. Indexing the T-bars means to remove the T-bars and rotate one or more of the ends to make the needed changes. It depends on the amount of change wanted, and the spring weight (effective diamter) of the T-bar (since most folks change these at the same time).

The full procedure for T-bar indexing and removal/replacement is on Tech-Session... it also includes ride-height adjustment via the eccentric, and ride-height measurement techniques. It is not an easy job, and will takes several hours to complete dependant on expereince and *luck*.

944 Torsion Bar Procedures

Good Luck!

Skip

Depends on the year you are looking to convert to... but primarily this will include the entire suspension (everything you see inside the wheelwells)

Kind of... it depends on how much of the *donor* car you can get. For instance, you'll need the newer [longer] control arms and tie-rods for the front... and the axles for the rear. For your car, this requires a wheel change also, as the offset will now be that of the later cars, not to mention the size of the brakes will not fit inside the OE 15" wheels. It's not hard to convert the early or mid 944 to the later M030, you just have to attck it with a plan of what will be sourced used, and what will be sourced new. Most everything available for the conversion is also available new or equivalent. (brakes, struts, axles, arms, stabilizers, etc)

Far and away a very true statement!

I will add that there's a much easier way to upgrade the 86 944 suspension without getting into the swap game. As is stated earlier in this thread, there are two cost-effective options for uprating the front springs.. one is the adjustable ride-height kit:

The other is a choice of 200-250# OE diameter lowering springs:


For the rear, you can leave the T-bars as is and uprate the sway bar to be sure and balance out any understeer gained from uprating the front... or, change out the torsion bars for a corresponding spring rate (27-28mm is common). OR, you can search for either the 968 M030 fixed height helper spring shocks or the Turbo Cup rear coil-overs... in this case you may still need to at least index the torsion bars to set proper ride height.

The 968 M030 stabilizers are available new, and will plug right into the 86 suspension with a provided group of parts (bushings and two new front mounts)

Good Luck!

Lemon Yellow 87 n/a

Hey Skip, I'm installing my koni yellows and weltmeister 250# springs tonight. Do you think I should adjust the eccentric on the rears too? How long does this take? It looks pretty easy. Am I mistaken? Will the rear need an alignment after (I think I read sowhere that the rear does not require an alignment). Remember, the car is a daily driver. Thanks.

Skip

The Koni inserts will take a bit longer than a normal strut swap, so plan accordingly.

You'll need the correct size wrenches for the ride-height eccentric (24mm socket or open-end wrench, 36mm open-end wrench), but it's not hard, just be sure you mark the starting position. Here's the link again, if you need it.

You should be getting an alignment after this whole process, mostly due to the front though (you're unbolting the struts, which affects camber)... the rear ride-height has *little* to do with alignment. (meaning: you can get away with it).

Russ Murphy

I'll have to echo Danno on the Paragon coilover upgrade. Jason @ Paragon steered me to 200# springs for the front since I wasn't messing with the rear. I dropped the rear via the spring plate adjustment and added the M030 sway bars front and rear and
I'm eating 930's for lunch at the track.
Yummy!

Tom Pultz

I'd stay away from these. They have NO adjustability and are only made to work with cars that have the torsion bars indexed very flat (like about 10-11 deg spring plate angle). If you fit them to a stock 944 your ride height will go up considerably.

I think the only reason the factory chose to use this system was because they already had a bunch of 25.5mm torsion bars and didn't want to fit anything larger... but they also wanted more stiffness in the rear of the 968 M030.

Sean

Okay.... My NA 944 has front & rear stabilizer bars and (incidentally) Limited Slip Differential. The handling is great, but the suspension does occasionally "squat" and roll in turns.

Any advice on the best & simplest way to upgrade the suspension? Since I have rear stabilizer bars, do I need to worry about rear suspension, or will upgrading the front suffice?

I am interested in upgrading; just want to make sure I don't inadvertently foul something up in the process. If a simple front spring change will suffice, then so be it.