View Poll Results: Is the Cayman the "New 944"?
Yes
29
33.33%
No
58
66.67%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll
Is the Cayman the new 944? What do you guys think.
11-10-2009, 11:37 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Is the Cayman the new 944? What do you guys think.
I do not know if this has been talked about before but I had a thought and wanted to know your opinions on this.
Is the Cayman the reincarnation of the 944?
Here is my reasoning let me know what you guys think:
1. Some say the S is a better driving car and faster then the 911 Carrera (sounds like the old debate about the 944 Turbo)
2. It could probably beat the 911 on the track if it was given a better engine and brakes.
3. The Cayman is one of the best handling cars on the road and is great for the track but does not seem to get proper respect (AKA its not a 911)
4. Because it is not a 911 it looses value more quickly and you can get a used Cayman at a much bigger discount then a used 911. (944 values used are much less then 911s from the same year)
5. Cayman has a mid engine, giving it great handling properties but it does not hold value like the 911. (The 944 became the economical track car because of what it costs to buy one and with its great weight distribution it handles great.)
Lastly, for some reason the Cayman intrigues me more then any current 911 except the GT-3.
Is the Cayman the reincarnation of the 944?
Here is my reasoning let me know what you guys think:
1. Some say the S is a better driving car and faster then the 911 Carrera (sounds like the old debate about the 944 Turbo)
2. It could probably beat the 911 on the track if it was given a better engine and brakes.
3. The Cayman is one of the best handling cars on the road and is great for the track but does not seem to get proper respect (AKA its not a 911)
4. Because it is not a 911 it looses value more quickly and you can get a used Cayman at a much bigger discount then a used 911. (944 values used are much less then 911s from the same year)
5. Cayman has a mid engine, giving it great handling properties but it does not hold value like the 911. (The 944 became the economical track car because of what it costs to buy one and with its great weight distribution it handles great.)
Lastly, for some reason the Cayman intrigues me more then any current 911 except the GT-3.
11-10-2009, 11:42 PM
#2
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there will never be another 944 imo. The cayman is simply a very nice mid engined sports coupe. The only thing they have in common is they are mid-level sports cars.
11-11-2009, 05:42 AM
#4
Pro
I voted no. It comes down to the fact that there is currently no factory forced induction option on the Cayman. I have a pretty good means of comparison here - in addition to my 951, I own a 996 with a 3.4L, as found in the Cayman S, with basically the same power output. The 951 is more fun to drive, it has a much greater emotional impact. The 996 is powerful, but it's a more refined driving experience. I had a Boxster too and absolutely love the light, mid-engine handling, but the way the 951 lays down power can't be beat by a NA car. Without forced induction, the Cayman will never gain the same following. Although I'd like my next track car to be a Cayman, I don't expect that to happen for many years and I don't yet know if/how I would add forced induction - probably supercharging, as I don't think there will be room to turbocharge it. Not sure if the factory block/components are robust enough to endure that (it seems that many of these H6 water-cooled engines have catastrophic failures even without forced induction), and how practical it will be for folks to work on these drivetrains by themselves without a lift.
11-11-2009, 08:39 AM
#5
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The points you make are valid, Porsche prices and sells cars by the horsepower-----
Jeremy Clark pointed this out on Top Gear, implying that it probably costs Porsche hardly a penny more
to manufacture the 3.6 litre engine in the basic 911 --
as it does to manufacture the smaller displacement engines of the the Cayman and Boxter.
True, the Cayman is superior in its design over the 911,
just as the 944 was, but I don't think its a good comparison.
Its got a rather exotic motor, that may turn out to be somewhat of a throwaway engine,
in that rebuilding or replacing it may not prove easy to justify, much the same as the 928, 996, and 997.
[the 993, apparently suffers less, from this dilemma].
At 172 mph, its as fast as the 928 was from 1988 to 1995, perhaps making the Cayman, more, the new 928.
The old 944/968 is a "niche Porsche" perhaps, not only due to the ease of performing tune-ups...
but because it enjoys such a unique following of motorists who build and turbocharge the cars...
basically turning the 944/968 into supercars.
I don't see the Cayman becoming the new 944/968 in this regard at the track either, but you never know.
Maybe a V8 Chevy Cayman !!
here's the Top Gear link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riGejPAqNVw
./
Jeremy Clark pointed this out on Top Gear, implying that it probably costs Porsche hardly a penny more
to manufacture the 3.6 litre engine in the basic 911 --
as it does to manufacture the smaller displacement engines of the the Cayman and Boxter.
True, the Cayman is superior in its design over the 911,
just as the 944 was, but I don't think its a good comparison.
Its got a rather exotic motor, that may turn out to be somewhat of a throwaway engine,
in that rebuilding or replacing it may not prove easy to justify, much the same as the 928, 996, and 997.
[the 993, apparently suffers less, from this dilemma].
At 172 mph, its as fast as the 928 was from 1988 to 1995, perhaps making the Cayman, more, the new 928.
The old 944/968 is a "niche Porsche" perhaps, not only due to the ease of performing tune-ups...
but because it enjoys such a unique following of motorists who build and turbocharge the cars...
basically turning the 944/968 into supercars.
I don't see the Cayman becoming the new 944/968 in this regard at the track either, but you never know.
Maybe a V8 Chevy Cayman !!
here's the Top Gear link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riGejPAqNVw
./
Last edited by odurandina; 11-11-2009 at 10:54 AM. Reason: LINK ADDED !!
11-11-2009, 09:59 AM
#6
Race Director
I like paragraphs. They flow well. 
No, I don't think its the modern version of the 944. It's a great car, IMHO the perfect evolution of a Boxster. But that's what it is: a mid-engined two seater sports car. Not a transaxle 2+2 coupe.
It will probably have a great enthusiast following, just like the 944. But so does the 911. And so does the Boxster to a point. So you can't really use that as a defining trait of comparison.
And (don't hate me for saying this), I don't feel that the Cayman will bottom out, from a resale value standpoint, like the 944 series has. That alone will keep it out of the hands of many folks that otherwise are perfect for worn-out 944's. Meaning budget-conscious enthusiasts (not necessarily those with less expendable cash......). Of course there are also the people who are low on means who buy a 944 because they have $2k burning a hole in their pocket and "get a good deal on a Porsche" only to find out later that the $1500 clutch and $800 T-belt job kills their dream and said 944 ends up in a scrapyard. I doubt you would ever see that happen to a Cayman------it would never get down to that price-point or demographic.
No, I don't think its the modern version of the 944. It's a great car, IMHO the perfect evolution of a Boxster. But that's what it is: a mid-engined two seater sports car. Not a transaxle 2+2 coupe.
It will probably have a great enthusiast following, just like the 944. But so does the 911. And so does the Boxster to a point. So you can't really use that as a defining trait of comparison.
And (don't hate me for saying this), I don't feel that the Cayman will bottom out, from a resale value standpoint, like the 944 series has. That alone will keep it out of the hands of many folks that otherwise are perfect for worn-out 944's. Meaning budget-conscious enthusiasts (not necessarily those with less expendable cash......). Of course there are also the people who are low on means who buy a 944 because they have $2k burning a hole in their pocket and "get a good deal on a Porsche" only to find out later that the $1500 clutch and $800 T-belt job kills their dream and said 944 ends up in a scrapyard. I doubt you would ever see that happen to a Cayman------it would never get down to that price-point or demographic.
11-11-2009, 10:17 AM
#7
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And (don't hate me for saying this), I don't feel that the Cayman will bottom out, from a resale value standpoint, like the 944 series has. That alone will keep it out of the hands of many folks that otherwise are perfect for worn-out 944's. Meaning budget-conscious enthusiasts (not necessarily those with less expendable cash......). Of course there are also the people who are low on means who buy a 944 because they have $2k burning a hole in their pocket and "get a good deal on a Porsche" only to find out later that the $1500 clutch and $800 T-belt job kills their dream and said 944 ends up in a scrapyard. I doubt you would ever see that happen to a Cayman------it would never get down to that price-point or demographic.
When first introduced, the 944 and Cayman/Boxster were the lowest price offerings. The 944 was by no means cheap. In fact it's sticker price in the late 1980s would be a rip-off TODAY for a 150 HP 4 cylinder car. So we'll call that a similarity.
Culturally, the 944 was a break from Porsche design. The Cayman/Box was not. In fact it is the proper extension of the 911. The 944's layout and water-cooled engine give it permanent stepchild status. The Cay/Box was not a stepchild, although it was neglected to protect the 911.
Moving the timeline ahead 15 years, will the Cay/Box BECOME what the 944 is today? Nope. As noted, Cay/Box values will hold up better. Not like 911 values, but certainly not like 944s.
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11-11-2009, 10:29 AM
#8
The boxster is the current depriciation king with many early cars selling for $10K. These cars are hardly 10 years old and went from being $40-50K cars to $10-11K cars. Decent (non S) are still under $15K
The 944s. Introduced in '83(?) and cost $18-22K then prices jumped.. My '87 was listed for Over $30K.. 968's were $40-50K. Early cars are selling in the what, $3-5K range? Decent examples in the $6-12K range?
The 914. Introduced (4cyl) for about $4k. Early cars sell in the $3-5K range, unless perfect, then they get $8-10K (non-6's mind you)
I don't see the Cayman prices dropping as low as Boxster prices, in part due to Quantity. Porsche has built around, oh, I forget, but at least 150,000 Boxsters in 10 years. They have built maybe 30,000 Caymans in 3-4 years. I imagine the Cayman will always carry a price premium over the Boxster due to this fact.
Other than being "entry level" and having a hatch, I don't think the Cayman is the new 944.
The 944s. Introduced in '83(?) and cost $18-22K then prices jumped.. My '87 was listed for Over $30K.. 968's were $40-50K. Early cars are selling in the what, $3-5K range? Decent examples in the $6-12K range?
The 914. Introduced (4cyl) for about $4k. Early cars sell in the $3-5K range, unless perfect, then they get $8-10K (non-6's mind you)
I don't see the Cayman prices dropping as low as Boxster prices, in part due to Quantity. Porsche has built around, oh, I forget, but at least 150,000 Boxsters in 10 years. They have built maybe 30,000 Caymans in 3-4 years. I imagine the Cayman will always carry a price premium over the Boxster due to this fact.
Other than being "entry level" and having a hatch, I don't think the Cayman is the new 944.
11-11-2009, 10:40 AM
#9
Race Director
yes.
In terms of car design no. Not at all. However the Boxster is the next cheap garbage can track toy in the Porsche family. Many years ago it was old 356's then 914's and now 944's. The boxster is getting there.
The boxster S/ Cayman S is more like the 944 turbo and will be performance bargains in time.
Even so the fell of these cars is not the same.
In terms of car design no. Not at all. However the Boxster is the next cheap garbage can track toy in the Porsche family. Many years ago it was old 356's then 914's and now 944's. The boxster is getting there.
The boxster S/ Cayman S is more like the 944 turbo and will be performance bargains in time.
Even so the fell of these cars is not the same.
11-11-2009, 11:12 AM
#10
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The used Caymans are selling at somewhat reasonable prices already--
but not sure it would be an enviable position to need to do an engine tear-down or replacement.
I am not sure the Boxter [see video] is being driven by ordinary folks at the track.
I think these people belong to a higher income group, but then, what do I know ?
btw -- thats Tony G. in the video introducing himself !!
http://www.porscheusa.com/family
./
but not sure it would be an enviable position to need to do an engine tear-down or replacement.
I am not sure the Boxter [see video] is being driven by ordinary folks at the track.
I think these people belong to a higher income group, but then, what do I know ?
btw -- thats Tony G. in the video introducing himself !!
http://www.porscheusa.com/family
./
11-11-2009, 01:47 PM
#12
Funny, looking @ the poll results so far, I'm in the minority.
I think the Cayman *is* the modern 944. Without a doubt.
Yes, it's a completely different car (mid engine, non-turbo, 2 seater) but when you look @ where it is in the lineup, and you take into consideration just how times have changed - it's exactly where the 944 was, for the reasons listed by the OP. A loaded Cayman performs just about as well (or possibly better) than an entry 911. Costs about the same as an entry-level 911. But a stripped version can be had for quite a bit less than a 911, making it more of the entry-level Porsche (which is what the 944 was.)
I don't think there is a comparable 924. The Boxster/Cayman, for purposes of this argument, IMO are the same car.
As for dropping prices - it wouldn't surprise me to see Cayman prices drop to what Boxster prices are, eventually. The Boxster has been around for 12-13 years now, and the early cars are (as already mentioned) getting down to the $10k range. When we get to the point where a base 2.7L Cayman (non-S) is 12-13 years old, I don't see why it wouldn't be priced in the same range as a similarly aged Boxster.
Frankly I would expect the Cayman to be less desirable and possibly cheaper than the Boxster to the average person looking to buy a $10k example. The average Joe looking @ a $10k Boxster is thinking, "oooh a cheap Porsche roadster" just like the guy looking @ a $2k 944. For that kind of guy, he'd probably rather have a convertible than a coupe, wouldn't you think?
I think the Cayman *is* the modern 944. Without a doubt.
Yes, it's a completely different car (mid engine, non-turbo, 2 seater) but when you look @ where it is in the lineup, and you take into consideration just how times have changed - it's exactly where the 944 was, for the reasons listed by the OP. A loaded Cayman performs just about as well (or possibly better) than an entry 911. Costs about the same as an entry-level 911. But a stripped version can be had for quite a bit less than a 911, making it more of the entry-level Porsche (which is what the 944 was.)
I don't think there is a comparable 924. The Boxster/Cayman, for purposes of this argument, IMO are the same car.
As for dropping prices - it wouldn't surprise me to see Cayman prices drop to what Boxster prices are, eventually. The Boxster has been around for 12-13 years now, and the early cars are (as already mentioned) getting down to the $10k range. When we get to the point where a base 2.7L Cayman (non-S) is 12-13 years old, I don't see why it wouldn't be priced in the same range as a similarly aged Boxster.
Frankly I would expect the Cayman to be less desirable and possibly cheaper than the Boxster to the average person looking to buy a $10k example. The average Joe looking @ a $10k Boxster is thinking, "oooh a cheap Porsche roadster" just like the guy looking @ a $2k 944. For that kind of guy, he'd probably rather have a convertible than a coupe, wouldn't you think?
11-11-2009, 07:26 PM
#13
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I certainly hope not, I can't stand the rear end on the cayman. They are tempting because of price and the boner factor from the mid engine layout, but I'll never be able to handle that stupid ***.
