Driving with no brakes or clutch
10-15-2009, 04:55 PM
#1
Track Day
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Driving with no brakes or clutch
Hey guys, I need your help! I recently replaced my master cylinder because my brakes were a little mushy and while reading thru the forum and Clark's garage, I decided to replace it so I could have the brakes that these cars are famous for. It's like everytime I try to do something nice for my 83' 944 the car wants more. Now that I have installed the master cylinder and slave cylinder, bled the thing 3 times with it's butt in the air and nose on the ground, I still have air in the system. When bleeding, I am getting no air in the lines but trying to drive it everything goes out after pushing on either the brakes or the clutch. Could this be a booster problem? I did manage to get the car home from work by attaching a string around the clutch pedal and pulling it back up everytime the pedal stayed on the floor. The brakes were almost no existent but I managed to keep out of trouble and get her safely home only to put her butt up in the air one more time. Maybe she likes it that way.
10-15-2009, 06:17 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
You might have a bad clutch master and/or slave.
Also, how are you bleeding the brakes? One person pumping up the pedal until it is hard, then someone else opening one bleeder at a time and then closing it before the person inside lets off the pedal? And what order? These cars are LR, RR, RF, LF (in order of longest to shorted brake line).
Also, THIS: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...AMXENE7TJNJ3J3
I won't even bother trying to bleed a clutch without one anymore, and those famous brakes come from a good system PLUS pressure bleeding. That's what gives you the rock hard pedal.
Also, how are you bleeding the brakes? One person pumping up the pedal until it is hard, then someone else opening one bleeder at a time and then closing it before the person inside lets off the pedal? And what order? These cars are LR, RR, RF, LF (in order of longest to shorted brake line).
Also, THIS: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...AMXENE7TJNJ3J3
I won't even bother trying to bleed a clutch without one anymore, and those famous brakes come from a good system PLUS pressure bleeding. That's what gives you the rock hard pedal.
10-15-2009, 06:34 PM
#3
Track Day
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Bleeding brakes, and wallet
Thanks for the reply, yes I have someone pumping up the pedal and holing while I bleed. I must have read Clark's garage wrong though, I thought it said the order was RR, LR, RF, LF. The master cylinder is new and the PO had just installed the slave prior to my purchase 1 year ago.
Thanks also for the website with the power bleeder. It looks like a must have item.
Thanks also for the website with the power bleeder. It looks like a must have item.
10-15-2009, 06:43 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
You read Clark's correctly. But it's wrong (gasp!). If you trace the brake lines, you'll see that you have only 3 coming out of the master. One for each front (and it's pretty obvious which is the longest there) and one to the back. The one for the back crosses the engine compartment, goes down the right side of the car, and then is junctioned over to the LR, making that one the longest. Contrary to most other vehicles I and probably most others have worked on.
The pressure bleeder (any pressure bleeder, but the Motive is nice and inexpensive for what it is) will make your life much easier.
I'm going to take a guess: was the master cylinder replaced without being bench bled before it went on the car? If so, you have almost NO chance of pulling this off without a pressure bleeder (unless you pull the lines off and "bench bleed" it in place.....but you'll need the right fitting for that).
The pressure bleeder (any pressure bleeder, but the Motive is nice and inexpensive for what it is) will make your life much easier.
I'm going to take a guess: was the master cylinder replaced without being bench bled before it went on the car? If so, you have almost NO chance of pulling this off without a pressure bleeder (unless you pull the lines off and "bench bleed" it in place.....but you'll need the right fitting for that).
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10-15-2009, 06:59 PM
#5
Drifting
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You read Clark's correctly. But it's wrong (gasp!). If you trace the brake lines, you'll see that you have only 3 coming out of the master. One for each front (and it's pretty obvious which is the longest there) and one to the back. The one for the back crosses the engine compartment, goes down the right side of the car, and then is junctioned over to the LR, making that one the longest. Contrary to most other vehicles I and probably most others have worked on.
The pressure bleeder (any pressure bleeder, but the Motive is nice and inexpensive for what it is) will make your life much easier.
I'm going to take a guess: was the master cylinder replaced without being bench bled before it went on the car? If so, you have almost NO chance of pulling this off without a pressure bleeder (unless you pull the lines off and "bench bleed" it in place.....but you'll need the right fitting for that).
The pressure bleeder (any pressure bleeder, but the Motive is nice and inexpensive for what it is) will make your life much easier.
I'm going to take a guess: was the master cylinder replaced without being bench bled before it went on the car? If so, you have almost NO chance of pulling this off without a pressure bleeder (unless you pull the lines off and "bench bleed" it in place.....but you'll need the right fitting for that).
If you bleed thoroughly enough, it's not going to be critical whether you go RR-LR or LR-RR. Interesting observation, though.
10-15-2009, 07:25 PM
#7
This guy will take all the "fun" out of bleeding those lines, esp. the clutch! Well worth the $$$
http://store.motiveproducts.com/shar...unt2=951087594
The euro bleeder should be all you need. The round screw type adapter also works on my Cavalier so some domestics as well.
http://store.motiveproducts.com/shar...unt2=951087594
The euro bleeder should be all you need. The round screw type adapter also works on my Cavalier so some domestics as well.
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10-15-2009, 07:45 PM
#8
Track Day
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I did bench bleed the master cylinder before installing it. The brakes have never been rock hard but they worked fine prior to swapping out the Master and Slave. Now when I drive the car after bleeding, I have both pedals working and then after about two minutes of driving the pedals go soft and the clutch stays on the floor until I pull the magic string and for some reason I can shift about 3 to 4 more times before it goes to the floor again. Quite the challenge and very disapointing to drive. I miss my corners.
Thanks for all the replies.
Thanks for all the replies.
10-15-2009, 08:31 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Sounds like a loose line connection at the master cylinder to me...
The brakes should be quite firm - and stay that way.
+1 on the Motive power bleeder. That's what I use.
The brakes should be quite firm - and stay that way.
+1 on the Motive power bleeder. That's what I use.
10-17-2009, 11:33 AM
#11
Three Wheelin'
True - I don't think it makes much of a difference, other than taking less fluid when you're doing a full flush. Sounds like the OP has multiple issues (leaks) as, or isn't bleeding properly, as the clutch and brakes obviously don't have much to do with each other than sharing a reservoir.
