Coilovers?
08-06-2002, 07:21 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Coilovers?
What are my options for coilovers (87 944)?
I count two:
Koni race setup from Paragon... $1200
Leda / Hypercoil from Racers Edge... $900
I would think it would be pretty easy to fit a coilover to the 944. There aren't any significant clearance issues, and the mouts are simple at both ends. Why can't I find anything else for the car?
I bought some torsion bars from Paragon, but my mechanic refuses to touch them and highly recommends I do the same. I've got three other cars to fix anyway, I don't have time to mess with that kind of job with only 3 weeks till my track event.
Does anyone have anything different than the two listed above? Can I add a threaded collar to my plain old Koni yellow shocks and install a spring that way? I'm just looking for a helper for my stock torsion bars.
I count two:
Koni race setup from Paragon... $1200
Leda / Hypercoil from Racers Edge... $900
I would think it would be pretty easy to fit a coilover to the 944. There aren't any significant clearance issues, and the mouts are simple at both ends. Why can't I find anything else for the car?
I bought some torsion bars from Paragon, but my mechanic refuses to touch them and highly recommends I do the same. I've got three other cars to fix anyway, I don't have time to mess with that kind of job with only 3 weeks till my track event.
Does anyone have anything different than the two listed above? Can I add a threaded collar to my plain old Koni yellow shocks and install a spring that way? I'm just looking for a helper for my stock torsion bars.
08-06-2002, 07:38 PM
#2
Race Director
FRONT
---------
2.5" Ground Control coilovers w/springs from Paragon ~250.00
you can chose from an infinte variety of 2.5" springs
REAR
----------
What's wrong with torsion bars? Just because your mechanic can't install them doesn't mean they're no good. You can get HAL shocks with threaded collars to fit the rear for a couple hundred bucks. This will let you supplement the spring-rates of the torsion-bars without having to remove/swap them. What size did you get from Paragon, BTW?
---------
2.5" Ground Control coilovers w/springs from Paragon ~250.00
you can chose from an infinte variety of 2.5" springs
REAR
----------
What's wrong with torsion bars? Just because your mechanic can't install them doesn't mean they're no good. You can get HAL shocks with threaded collars to fit the rear for a couple hundred bucks. This will let you supplement the spring-rates of the torsion-bars without having to remove/swap them. What size did you get from Paragon, BTW?
08-06-2002, 10:31 PM
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There's nothing wrong with torsion bars...if your mechanic won't touch them, I suggest you get yourself another mechanic that will (I have 30 mm torsion bars for my car...they're just sitting in the back seat waiting for me to become unlazy enough to install them). Besides, with either of those coil over packages listed, you will have to re-index the torsion bars anyways, so you will be doing the same work to get the coilovers to work as you would have to just install the t-bars. Suck it up, man.
08-07-2002, 01:58 AM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I bought the 30mm bars already, I have them at my house.
My mechanic is plenty good, I'm not worried. He refuses to touch the bars because they are a PITA. Also, the estimate for labor is between 10 and 20 hours, at $60/hr. You do the math, you think T-Bars are worth it? Also, once you install them, you're just as stuck at that setting as you were before you started. You can change ride height on coilovers in a matter of minutes, change spring rates in a half hour.
I know that T-Bars are fine and work great, I just do not want to deal with the time, expense, or pain of trying to dial them in.
Danno, where might I find these "HAL shocks with threaded collars"? I did a quick google search and it turned up a bunch of roundy round race companies. A 944 could fit inside most of the cars they cater to.
Also, I'm by no means a true racer, I do at least 99% of the driving on the street. So I can stand to loose an inch or so of the drop in the back for some extra stiffness. As it is now, I'll hit a seam in the pavement and get a SLAM-swooooooosh sort of feeling. Like the front end is a chuck wagon and the rear is a caddy. I'd just like to even it out to a good SLAM-SLAM balance.
My mechanic is plenty good, I'm not worried. He refuses to touch the bars because they are a PITA. Also, the estimate for labor is between 10 and 20 hours, at $60/hr. You do the math, you think T-Bars are worth it? Also, once you install them, you're just as stuck at that setting as you were before you started. You can change ride height on coilovers in a matter of minutes, change spring rates in a half hour.
I know that T-Bars are fine and work great, I just do not want to deal with the time, expense, or pain of trying to dial them in.
Danno, where might I find these "HAL shocks with threaded collars"? I did a quick google search and it turned up a bunch of roundy round race companies. A 944 could fit inside most of the cars they cater to.
Also, I'm by no means a true racer, I do at least 99% of the driving on the street. So I can stand to loose an inch or so of the drop in the back for some extra stiffness. As it is now, I'll hit a seam in the pavement and get a SLAM-swooooooosh sort of feeling. Like the front end is a chuck wagon and the rear is a caddy. I'd just like to even it out to a good SLAM-SLAM balance.
08-07-2002, 03:38 AM
#5
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[quote]Originally posted by DanG:
<strong>My mechanic is plenty good, I'm not worried. He refuses to touch the bars because they are a PITA. Also, the estimate for labor is between 10 and 20 hours, at $60/hr.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Labor estimate should be 6-8 hours for a shop experienced with them (specifically 28 thru 31mm bars, as they are most common) - most performance shops will know the exact angle of the spring plates for the desired ride height. This negates the multiple try method of setting differential ride height, reducing the labor. The most frustrating part of the whole job, no matter the experience level or access to proper tool is the removal of the stock rubber bushings on the spring plate, and sizing of the new one.
[quote]<strong>Also, once you install them, you're just as stuck at that setting as you were before you started. You can change ride height on coilovers in a matter of minutes, change spring rates in a half hour.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nearly, but you also have nearly an inch of adjustment in the psring plate eccentric. Once you determine the use of the vehicle, the shop should determine the proper ride height. Unless you are planning on DE's ranging from the Salt Flats to the Amazon - the first ride height will be the best *compromise* for your intended usage. Coil-overs are for racers, and those with deep pockets. 30mm T-bars are probably the single most popular size for serious Autocross, DE, and even Club Race (until the jump to coils).
Your analysis of the coil-over ease of use is right on - no argument there. However, since it is the timeline of installation you are most concerned with, please know that you will still have to index the torsion bars to make use of any coil-over setup you choose. The ride height must be lowered to allow the coil to become loaded, and useful. Indexing is 9/10 of the way to replacing.
[quote]<strong>I know that T-Bars are fine and work great, I just do not want to deal with the time, expense, or pain of trying to dial them in.<hr></blockquote></strong>
There is a proverb, though I don't know from whom: "More choices yields more mistakes"
[quote]<strong>A 944 could fit inside most of the cars they cater to.<hr></blockquote></strong>
That's funny
[quote]<strong>As it is now, I'll hit a seam in the pavement and get a SLAM-swooooooosh sort of feeling. Like the front end is a chuck wagon and the rear is a caddy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's one the best descriptions of worn shocks I've heard lately... new shocks = no more Bonanza rides.
Good Luck!
<strong>My mechanic is plenty good, I'm not worried. He refuses to touch the bars because they are a PITA. Also, the estimate for labor is between 10 and 20 hours, at $60/hr.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Labor estimate should be 6-8 hours for a shop experienced with them (specifically 28 thru 31mm bars, as they are most common) - most performance shops will know the exact angle of the spring plates for the desired ride height. This negates the multiple try method of setting differential ride height, reducing the labor. The most frustrating part of the whole job, no matter the experience level or access to proper tool is the removal of the stock rubber bushings on the spring plate, and sizing of the new one.
[quote]<strong>Also, once you install them, you're just as stuck at that setting as you were before you started. You can change ride height on coilovers in a matter of minutes, change spring rates in a half hour.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nearly, but you also have nearly an inch of adjustment in the psring plate eccentric. Once you determine the use of the vehicle, the shop should determine the proper ride height. Unless you are planning on DE's ranging from the Salt Flats to the Amazon - the first ride height will be the best *compromise* for your intended usage. Coil-overs are for racers, and those with deep pockets. 30mm T-bars are probably the single most popular size for serious Autocross, DE, and even Club Race (until the jump to coils).
Your analysis of the coil-over ease of use is right on - no argument there. However, since it is the timeline of installation you are most concerned with, please know that you will still have to index the torsion bars to make use of any coil-over setup you choose. The ride height must be lowered to allow the coil to become loaded, and useful. Indexing is 9/10 of the way to replacing.
[quote]<strong>I know that T-Bars are fine and work great, I just do not want to deal with the time, expense, or pain of trying to dial them in.<hr></blockquote></strong>
There is a proverb, though I don't know from whom: "More choices yields more mistakes"
[quote]<strong>A 944 could fit inside most of the cars they cater to.<hr></blockquote></strong>
That's funny
[quote]<strong>As it is now, I'll hit a seam in the pavement and get a SLAM-swooooooosh sort of feeling. Like the front end is a chuck wagon and the rear is a caddy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's one the best descriptions of worn shocks I've heard lately... new shocks = no more Bonanza rides.
Good Luck!
08-07-2002, 01:17 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
So now I'm back where I started... I should find a different shop that is experienced enough with 944s to do the job right the first time and not charge me 10 hours of labor? Who know's of such a shop within a 100 miles or so of Pittsburgh PA? I'm currently going to Dave's Garage in McKeesport, he races a white 951 and calls himself "Snake Racing". He does do great engine work, although after speaking with some bignames in 944s (JME, some good local PCA guys), they don't seem to like him much.
I think I'm going to keep the torsion bars. From what I can tell, the costs of torsion bars should be less as long as I don't need new rear shocks ($250 for the bars, ~$300-500 for labor). Even if you add in a new pair of shocks ($250), and I'm at a total of $500-1000 depending on labor... none, if I do it myself to 8 hours by a mechanic.
Skip, thanks for the reply. You mentioned I'd need to use new rubber bushings in the spring plate, all I see from Paragon are the Weltmeister poly bushings, at about $70 a set. Also, do you think its possible I might only be suffering from a worn-out set of shocks? They are Koni Yellows, but are a few years old, have seen at least 40K miles. They're set to 1/4 turn back from full stiff, but I can easily push and pull the back bumper up and down a few inches. The car does still pass the bounce test, its not like the rear end bobs up and down on the highway.
I think I'm going to keep the torsion bars. From what I can tell, the costs of torsion bars should be less as long as I don't need new rear shocks ($250 for the bars, ~$300-500 for labor). Even if you add in a new pair of shocks ($250), and I'm at a total of $500-1000 depending on labor... none, if I do it myself to 8 hours by a mechanic.
Skip, thanks for the reply. You mentioned I'd need to use new rubber bushings in the spring plate, all I see from Paragon are the Weltmeister poly bushings, at about $70 a set. Also, do you think its possible I might only be suffering from a worn-out set of shocks? They are Koni Yellows, but are a few years old, have seen at least 40K miles. They're set to 1/4 turn back from full stiff, but I can easily push and pull the back bumper up and down a few inches. The car does still pass the bounce test, its not like the rear end bobs up and down on the highway.
08-07-2002, 03:24 PM
#7
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[quote]Originally posted by DanG:
<strong>Skip, thanks for the reply. You mentioned I'd need to use new rubber bushings in the spring plate, all I see from Paragon are the Weltmeister poly bushings, at about $70 a set.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Delrin (stiffer, lasts longer, less squeaks) for the inner and outer bushings (from Racer's Edge) is now available. Rubber is not replaceable without changing in a whole new plate. Not recommended anyway. <a href="http://www.smartcart.com/Paragon/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=944RacersEdge" target="_blank">RE Delrin Bushings - ~$170</a> Weltmeister poly-graphite is a good choice also.
[quote]<strong>Also, do you think its possible I might only be suffering from a worn-out set of shocks? They are Koni Yellows, but are a few years old, have seen at least 40K miles. They're set to 1/4 turn back from full stiff, but I can easily push and pull the back bumper up and down a few inches. The car does still pass the bounce test, its not like the rear end bobs up and down on the highway.</strong><hr></blockquote>
From that explanation, no - not likely. However, if you are the original purchaser of aftermarket Konis, they are covered by a lifetime warranty - if you do discover they are in any way malfunctioning, then please check into this. It's unlikely they are bad after only 40k miles, but certainly not impossible. The push on the bumper test only reveals that they spring rate is weak enough for you to compress the suspension easily - as long as the car does not bounce up and down once releases, you are likely good to go. I have the 30mm bars in my car, and it's very difficult to compress the rear suspension by pushing down - the tire sidewalls give before the suspension does. That said, and from your earlier comment of 99% street use, are you sure you want that harshness in trade for superb track manners? Maybe 28mm would be the better compromise for your situation? With a 250-300# front rate...
EDIT: BTW, 1/4 turn from full stiff and stock spring rates on a street driven car is way too much - dial it back to 1/2 turn from soft and see what happens. Those Konis have a wide (~100%) adjustment range to suit a swath of conditions and spring rates - even at the lowest setting, they are much stiffer than OE shocks.
Good Luck!
<strong>Skip, thanks for the reply. You mentioned I'd need to use new rubber bushings in the spring plate, all I see from Paragon are the Weltmeister poly bushings, at about $70 a set.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Delrin (stiffer, lasts longer, less squeaks) for the inner and outer bushings (from Racer's Edge) is now available. Rubber is not replaceable without changing in a whole new plate. Not recommended anyway. <a href="http://www.smartcart.com/Paragon/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=944RacersEdge" target="_blank">RE Delrin Bushings - ~$170</a> Weltmeister poly-graphite is a good choice also.
[quote]<strong>Also, do you think its possible I might only be suffering from a worn-out set of shocks? They are Koni Yellows, but are a few years old, have seen at least 40K miles. They're set to 1/4 turn back from full stiff, but I can easily push and pull the back bumper up and down a few inches. The car does still pass the bounce test, its not like the rear end bobs up and down on the highway.</strong><hr></blockquote>
From that explanation, no - not likely. However, if you are the original purchaser of aftermarket Konis, they are covered by a lifetime warranty - if you do discover they are in any way malfunctioning, then please check into this. It's unlikely they are bad after only 40k miles, but certainly not impossible. The push on the bumper test only reveals that they spring rate is weak enough for you to compress the suspension easily - as long as the car does not bounce up and down once releases, you are likely good to go. I have the 30mm bars in my car, and it's very difficult to compress the rear suspension by pushing down - the tire sidewalls give before the suspension does. That said, and from your earlier comment of 99% street use, are you sure you want that harshness in trade for superb track manners? Maybe 28mm would be the better compromise for your situation? With a 250-300# front rate...
EDIT: BTW, 1/4 turn from full stiff and stock spring rates on a street driven car is way too much - dial it back to 1/2 turn from soft and see what happens. Those Konis have a wide (~100%) adjustment range to suit a swath of conditions and spring rates - even at the lowest setting, they are much stiffer than OE shocks.
Good Luck!
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08-07-2002, 03:43 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Dan..I hope you don't mind if I tag on here...
Skip,
I am interested in the Coilover setup that Paragon offers. I have OEM Boge struts on the front of my '82 944 currently. How does the new spring perch fit on this strut housing? I would have the Koni sprort inserts of course at the time of installing the coil over.
Currently I have 250# front welts and 28mm Torsion bars. It is just way to comfortable I am going all out for next years Auto-X season. I am thinking I will go with 450# front and 32mm (434#) rear torsion bars. Probably the The Welt sways with adjustable drop links also. I currently have some 951S bars that I got second hand from Adrial. Just this simple setup of moderate spring rates and Turbo S sway bars has made a huge difference. You may want to think about that Dan. My car currently handles like a dream but it is time to up the ante a bit 
Skip,
I am interested in the Coilover setup that Paragon offers. I have OEM Boge struts on the front of my '82 944 currently. How does the new spring perch fit on this strut housing? I would have the Koni sprort inserts of course at the time of installing the coil over.
Currently I have 250# front welts and 28mm Torsion bars. It is just way to comfortable
I am going all out for next years Auto-X season. I am thinking I will go with 450# front and 32mm (434#) rear torsion bars. Probably the The Welt sways with adjustable drop links also. I currently have some 951S bars that I got second hand from Adrial. Just this simple setup of moderate spring rates and Turbo S sway bars has made a huge difference. You may want to think about that Dan. My car currently handles like a dream but it is time to up the ante a bit
08-07-2002, 03:45 PM
#9
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Skip:
<strong>
From that explanation, no - not likely. However, if you are the original purchaser of aftermarket Konis, they are covered by a lifetime warranty - if you do discover they are in any way malfunctioning, then please check into this. It's unlikely they are bad after only 40k miles, but certainly not impossible.
<snip>
EDIT: BTW, 1/4 turn from full stiff and stock spring rates on a street driven car is way too much - dial it back to 1/2 turn from soft and see what happens. Those Konis have a wide (~100%) adjustment range to suit a swath of conditions and spring rates - even at the lowest setting, they are much stiffer than OE shocks.
Good Luck!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep, I read a short technical piece by a Koni engineer about 20 years ago where he said that that vast majority of blown dampers they saw were a direct result of the damping being over-adjusted.
Springs and torsion bars should make the suspension stiff. Dampers should control the oscillations of the springs.
<strong>
From that explanation, no - not likely. However, if you are the original purchaser of aftermarket Konis, they are covered by a lifetime warranty - if you do discover they are in any way malfunctioning, then please check into this. It's unlikely they are bad after only 40k miles, but certainly not impossible.
<snip>
EDIT: BTW, 1/4 turn from full stiff and stock spring rates on a street driven car is way too much - dial it back to 1/2 turn from soft and see what happens. Those Konis have a wide (~100%) adjustment range to suit a swath of conditions and spring rates - even at the lowest setting, they are much stiffer than OE shocks.
Good Luck!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep, I read a short technical piece by a Koni engineer about 20 years ago where he said that that vast majority of blown dampers they saw were a direct result of the damping being over-adjusted.
Springs and torsion bars should make the suspension stiff. Dampers should control the oscillations of the springs.
08-07-2002, 04:04 PM
#10
How far is Pittsburgh from Cleveland? You could try Steinel's, those guys rock. And they only work on Porsches. Trouble is they are hard to schedule time with, especially the closer you get to an event. Steinel's Autowerks (330) 425-8582
08-07-2002, 04:14 PM
#11
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[quote]Originally posted by Michael Adkins:
<strong>I am interested in the Coilover setup that Paragon offers. I have OEM Boge struts on the front of my '82 944 currently. How does the new spring perch fit on this strut housing? I would have the Koni sprort inserts of course at the time of installing the coil over.<hr></blockquote></strong>
The threaded sleeve with lower perch slides over the strut housing prior to installing the gland nut (holds strut insert in housing). For best results, and asthetics, you'll want to grind the original spring perch down to ~1/4" from housing. Here's an old picture and the scan of the procedure - new pics and procedure coming soon:
<a href="http://www.tech-session.com/Paragon/Tech/944_arhkit.htm" target="_blank">944 Adjustable Ride Height Kit Installation</a>
[quote]<strong>Currently I have 250# front welts and 28mm Torsion bars. It is just way to comfortable I am going all out for next years Auto-X season. I am thinking I will go with 450# front and 32mm (434#) rear torsion bars. Probably the The Welt sways with adjustable drop links also. I currently have some 951S bars that I got second hand from Adrial. Just this simple setup of moderate spring rates and Turbo S sway bars has made a huge difference. You may want to think about that Dan. My car currently handles like a dream but it is time to up the ante a bit </strong><hr></blockquote>
If you haven't done the Konis yet, that will be another huge leap in performance. Also, I'd recommend 31mm torsion bars to match that 450# front... the standard differential wants to be 85% or so at that chosen front rate... 85% = 382#, 31mm = 382#
Good Luck!
<strong>I am interested in the Coilover setup that Paragon offers. I have OEM Boge struts on the front of my '82 944 currently. How does the new spring perch fit on this strut housing? I would have the Koni sprort inserts of course at the time of installing the coil over.<hr></blockquote></strong>
The threaded sleeve with lower perch slides over the strut housing prior to installing the gland nut (holds strut insert in housing). For best results, and asthetics, you'll want to grind the original spring perch down to ~1/4" from housing. Here's an old picture and the scan of the procedure - new pics and procedure coming soon:
<a href="http://www.tech-session.com/Paragon/Tech/944_arhkit.htm" target="_blank">944 Adjustable Ride Height Kit Installation</a>
[quote]<strong>Currently I have 250# front welts and 28mm Torsion bars. It is just way to comfortable
I am going all out for next years Auto-X season. I am thinking I will go with 450# front and 32mm (434#) rear torsion bars. Probably the The Welt sways with adjustable drop links also. I currently have some 951S bars that I got second hand from Adrial. Just this simple setup of moderate spring rates and Turbo S sway bars has made a huge difference. You may want to think about that Dan. My car currently handles like a dream but it is time to up the ante a bit </strong><hr></blockquote>If you haven't done the Konis yet, that will be another huge leap in performance. Also, I'd recommend 31mm torsion bars to match that 450# front... the standard differential wants to be 85% or so at that chosen front rate... 85% = 382#, 31mm = 382#
Good Luck!
08-07-2002, 04:35 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Michael, don't worry about it. I much prefer to read a large amount of related information in a single thread than tiny bits in multiple threads. Also, I've switched sway bars multiple times now, I haven't kept track of what is currently on the car. I can tell you that in side to side transitions, the car is great! Obviously, I'd like to think its all driver improvement, but I've moved from mid pack in C Stock, about the bottom 1/4 overall, to upper pack of CSP, maybe the top 1/3rd overall. I'm consistently among the top finishers on street tires.
The obvious imbalance is in the lack of rear stiffness, visually evident on takeoff, but driver evident during throttle and brake input changes while cornering.
Manning, thanks for the recommendation. Cleveland is about 125mi from Pittsburgh, and as a Steeler fan, I could never publicly admit that I have my car worked on by a bunch of Browns fans, but I will "keep note" of their number.
However, I think after all the hours I've spent reading and thinking about what to do with this problem, I should go through with replacing them myself. If the only hardship is tedium with having to use trial and error, I've got it in the bag. I've pulled the head and the engine from my Daytona more times than I wish to admit. As a matter of fact, my plans for this weekend are to install the torsion bars AND pull the rest of the engine from the Daytona (already pulled the head).
So, unless I change my mind AGAIN, I'll make sure to add a reply here once I've successfuly done the change. Thanks for your assistance.
The obvious imbalance is in the lack of rear stiffness, visually evident on takeoff, but driver evident during throttle and brake input changes while cornering.
Manning, thanks for the recommendation. Cleveland is about 125mi from Pittsburgh, and as a Steeler fan, I could never publicly admit that I have my car worked on by a bunch of Browns fans, but I will "keep note" of their number.
However, I think after all the hours I've spent reading and thinking about what to do with this problem, I should go through with replacing them myself. If the only hardship is tedium with having to use trial and error, I've got it in the bag. I've pulled the head and the engine from my Daytona more times than I wish to admit. As a matter of fact, my plans for this weekend are to install the torsion bars AND pull the rest of the engine from the Daytona (already pulled the head).
So, unless I change my mind AGAIN, I'll make sure to add a reply here once I've successfuly done the change. Thanks for your assistance.
08-07-2002, 04:42 PM
#13
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[quote]Originally posted by DanG:
<strong> my plans for this weekend are to install the torsion bars...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ha! Peer Pressure, we did it
Hopefully you've seen this then: <a href="http://www.tech-session.com/Paragon/Tech/944_tbar_main.htm" target="_blank">944 Torsion Bars</a>
Skip
<strong> my plans for this weekend are to install the torsion bars...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ha! Peer Pressure, we did it
Hopefully you've seen this then: <a href="http://www.tech-session.com/Paragon/Tech/944_tbar_main.htm" target="_blank">944 Torsion Bars</a>
Skip
08-07-2002, 05:04 PM
#14
Who are the Browns? Isn't that the team that moved to Baltimore and became the Ravens?
Hell, I'm from Florida, I was a Dolphins fan back when they had their unbeaten season.
Hell, I'm from Florida, I was a Dolphins fan back when they had their unbeaten season.
08-07-2002, 07:14 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Skip I've seen the Tech Session link, in fact, thanks for all of those, there is some good stuff in there. I came across that link back when I decided to buy the torsion bars, and went back a level to read the rest of them.
Manning, theres a saying we Steeler fans have about the mistake on the lake. "The only good thing about cleveland is that its just 125 miles from Pittsburgh." Note that cleveland isn't capitalized.
... so I've been having this same conversation with a guy I have much respect for. He's been a PCA driving instructor and successful 951 racer for many years. Heres what he had to say:
[quote]For what it's worth- I agonized over the rear coilover decision for months.
When I did it (finally) and went to Watkins Glen (having the same setup in
the front you did) it was by far the most impact for the $ I ever spent. I
regretted the intermediate less-expensive steps I went through before
finally doing the coilovers.
Coilovers use a standard race spring--> which you can buy anywhere. They
come in more spring rates than you can imagine, are no longer "Porsche
springs" == lower costs, more choices, etc. Are also quite easy to change
the springs. In conjunction with the stock torsion bar, they act as "helper"
springs.<hr></blockquote>
Granted, he is a honest to goodness track guy. I only want to have a balanced suspension for the occasional autocross or track event, but nothing truely competitive.
So I'm presented with the question, why not return the bars, and use ONLY coilovers for the rear suspension. I'd eliminate all headaches with indexing torsion bars, heck, it would even get rid of 20 lbs or so of extra weight. It would be a few hundred dollars more, but it would be a good multi purpose solution, as I could change the spring rates for street or race in a matter of a half hour. What do you guys think?
Manning, theres a saying we Steeler fans have about the mistake on the lake. "The only good thing about cleveland is that its just 125 miles from Pittsburgh." Note that cleveland isn't capitalized.
... so I've been having this same conversation with a guy I have much respect for. He's been a PCA driving instructor and successful 951 racer for many years. Heres what he had to say:
[quote]For what it's worth- I agonized over the rear coilover decision for months.
When I did it (finally) and went to Watkins Glen (having the same setup in
the front you did) it was by far the most impact for the $ I ever spent. I
regretted the intermediate less-expensive steps I went through before
finally doing the coilovers.
Coilovers use a standard race spring--> which you can buy anywhere. They
come in more spring rates than you can imagine, are no longer "Porsche
springs" == lower costs, more choices, etc. Are also quite easy to change
the springs. In conjunction with the stock torsion bar, they act as "helper"
springs.<hr></blockquote>
Granted, he is a honest to goodness track guy. I only want to have a balanced suspension for the occasional autocross or track event, but nothing truely competitive.
So I'm presented with the question, why not return the bars, and use ONLY coilovers for the rear suspension. I'd eliminate all headaches with indexing torsion bars, heck, it would even get rid of 20 lbs or so of extra weight. It would be a few hundred dollars more, but it would be a good multi purpose solution, as I could change the spring rates for street or race in a matter of a half hour. What do you guys think?