PSH944

I would not buy a chip without a money back guarantee. Then do a before and after dyno, to prove it does work. I can understand a car feeling quicker, and even performing a little (very) bit better from chipping it, but I can't imagine 10%-15% gains from a rechip on a 944 na. Why would Porsche overlook such an easy horsepower improvement with all their engineering wisdom.

If someone out there (not a chip manufacturer, or friend of) can prove that any chip has made significant improvement with a simple before and after dyno, we will all buy that chip.

Until then I have no intention swapping chips and neither should other people gamble on supposed improvements without proof.

Skip

I have a Chip, Header, K&N, and MSD Ignition - I dyno at just over 157TQ to the wheels - given 15% driveline loss, that's 185TQ at the crank - 166 was quoted stock TQ (89 2.7), would be 141 at wheels given 15% loss - a difference of 19TQ, or ~11% increase. While I do not have a stock chart for this car, I have compared to the curves to another 2.7, and there is more to the improvement than just the peak increase. This is no surprise, given the changes that Autothority publicly releases about the chip's statistics. The fuel maps are changed, that is fact - the rev limit is increased, that is fact - the claims of horse power are most assuredly made after fine tuning the test vehicle(s), and finding that right balance. Porsche was required to design a system that used 87 Octane gas (R+M/2) - Autothority requires you use 91 Octane. No two cars are alike - and so on. My car now knocks/detonates slightly if using anything but 91 octane or higher (no knock-sensor, anti-knock retard)

I agree with the merits of that case which states "Your widget didn't do exactly as stated", but the realism is that it's the best they (collectively) can do. Ideas with legitimacy do not fade away - the Tornado Intake System and Bilge Gas Pump... err "Intake Blower", do. My current favorite: <a href="http://www.dsuper.net/~tonyg29/" target="_blank">FuelMax</a>

I agree that the planets must truly be aligned for any of us mortals to experience the advertised increase from most any engine product.

Oh yeah - you could say that I am biased - oh well

S

PSH944

[quote] I have a Chip, Header, K&N, and MSD Ignition - I dyno at just over 158TQ to the wheels - given 15% driveline loss, that's 185TQ at the crank - 166 was quoted stock TQ (89 2.7), would be 141 at wheels given 15% loss - a difference of 19TQ, or ~11% increase. <hr></blockquote>

It's still not quite a before chip and after chip, and you do have some other mods, but it's definitely a start and shows there may be some improvements thanks to the chip. 11% total from those mods might be 5-8% just from the chip?

Does anyone else have before/after dynos from a chip install. I think everyone would be interested in seeing increases from all models form the 2.5L through to turbo models.

97xray

I'm particularly interested in the before and after of an early Euro, as that's what I've got. I emailed FRWilk (thanks for the patience!) and decided I couldn't be a jerk and send the whole DME unit BACK to be un-done if I didn't see the improvement after a modification. Nonetheless, it's still on my mind to gather more information on this topic.

The Euro had a more linear power curve to start with, right? - see FRWilk's webpages. I honestly don't know how that might change the proposed increases in performance. Also, Euro's ignored the O2 anyway, though many, including mine, had O2 sensors installed when imported...

I'm very interested in this topic. Ideally, I'd like to dyno the car as is (stock except a flat K&N insert and most likely clogged Cat (%^$#&)) and use the info as a "before" to compare to results after modifying the DME.

Anyone that wants to help out in this grand data gathering event, let me know! Specifically, funding is requested.

Skip

[quote]Originally posted by PSH944:
<strong>11% total from those mods might be 5-8% just from the chip? <hr></blockquote></strong>

Certainly, or less - I personally think the exhaust has been the most benficial mod to date. The claims of HP are most certainly subject to interpretation... and, most modifications are_not additive (+10 for this, +5 for that - does not = +15). The real benefit is that you are "doing the best you can" - if it's not possible to gain 21HP from altering just the fuel maps or raising the rev limit, then it's unrealistic to ask for such a thing. If it's possible to gain 21HP from a chip AND header AND test-pipe AND ignition AND a couple hours on the dyno to tie it all together, then that's what we have to do. Since relatively NO mods can be done to the internals of my engine (for classing), I have to play with the other less-advanced approaches.

[quote]<strong>Does anyone else have before/after dynos from a chip install. I think everyone would be interested in seeing increases from all models form the 2.5L through to turbo models.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'll dig mine up and post it tonight - still looking for a copy of a stock 89 2.7l to compare it to (graphically).

S

Carrera51

Don't waste your money on a chip. My old 83 had an aftermarket "performance" chip in it when I bought it. My car was no faster than my buddy's 83 which was bone stock.

Danno

Well, not all 'chips' are created equal. Our GURU Racing Chip Upgrade for the 951 gives +100 lb-ft of torque and 81rwhp over stock (+MAP sensor/+boost), compared to the Europroducts chips which only gave +40 lb-ft/15rwhp (same MAP & boost). Anyone who have used F.R. Wilk's chips will attest to their superiority over the stock chips and any other aftermarket ones as well.

If anyone has a dyno-chart of a stock 2.7L 944, I'll do an overlay with Chip's chip-upgrade and dyno-run for comparison.

Skip

[quote]Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>Well, not all 'chips' are created equal. Our GURU Racing Chip Upgrade for the 951 gives +100 lb-ft of torque and 81rwhp over stock (+MAP sensor/+boost)<hr></blockquote></strong>

Let us not forget, this is an NA thread - we all know the magical mystical power of fuel map and retard (not you, the engine ) changes on turbo cars.

[quote]<strong>If anyone has a dyno-chart of a stock 2.7L 944, I'll do an overlay with Chip's chip-upgrade and dyno-run for comparison.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's "Skip", Dan Nunchaku <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

Eric D

Skip,

I have an 89 NA and I am curious about the brakes on the car. Seems the pads are 89 specific but rotors are 87-89. Are the calipers different on an 89?

What other differences do you know of besides the motor being different? Sure makes buying parts for this car difficult but... It truly is the best of the breed (non S na).

Thanks...

Oh anyone else can pipe in this is not only for Chip er... uh... Skip

Danno

"Let us not forget, this is an NA thread - we all know the magical mystical power of fuel map and retard (not you, the engine ) changes on turbo cars."

Yup, but I was just illustrating the differences between two identical set-ups with the only change being the chips. In this case, it was a significant difference of 60 lb-ft and 66rwhp from only a chip upgrade over a previous chip-upgrade (both being better than stock).

Sorry about the Chip Skip, my lexdysia must be acting up...

FormulaOne10

[quote] Why would Porsche overlook such an easy horsepower improvement with all their engineering wisdom. <hr></blockquote>

Well, the answer is really quite obvious. They would never overlook such an easy cheap increase in horsepower...if it had no side effects. However, all of these changes to the engine management settings will probably ruin any chance of passing emissions (this is why I actually have 2 chips in my car with a switch). Porsche could never get a car set up like this from the factory past the EPA.

My Power Prom (FR Wilk) chip added a nice chunk of power for not too much money. I figure probably about 10hp and about 12 ft/lbs at the crank. However, my engine will not likely pass emissions testing with this chip. My chip is not street legal at all. Keep in mind that many of the other chip brands are street legal, and probably don't add as much power.

Skip

[quote]Originally posted by Logan5:
<strong>I have an 89 NA</strong><hr></blockquote>

Quick, go to the dyno - send your results in for comparison

[quote]<strong>and I am curious about the brakes on the car. Seems the pads are 89 specific but rotors are 87-89. Are the calipers different on an 89?<hr></blockquote></strong>

So far as I can tell, no - all brakes (front & rear) are the same for:

- 80-82 931
- 86-88 924S
- 83-89 944 8v na
- 87-88 944S

[quote]<strong>What other differences do you know of besides the motor being different? Sure makes buying parts for this car difficult but... It truly is the best of the breed (non S na).<hr></blockquote></strong>

Just the motor (and fuel injection, DME, etc). what parts are you having trouble with? I haven't run into any difficulties, but maybe I have an edge

All this talk about Chips is making me HUNGRY!

Paul Bloomberg

Formulaone10,
My early 944 spec car made 132.4 w/RACE CHIP and 130.2 w/stock chip on a dynojet. (a/f was correct) The 132whp seems to be consistant with other 944's (cone filter, w/fresh top-end, shaved head, chip, header, 2.5 exhaust w/o cat.)
Every notice your car feels faster after a oil change : ) Oh Yeah, it was synthetic that probabley freed up .4 or so.
Paul

Eric D

[quote]Originally posted by Skip:
<strong>[/qb]

Just the motor (and fuel injection, DME, etc). what parts are you having trouble with? I haven't run into any difficulties, but maybe I have an edge

All this talk about Chips is making me HUNGRY! </strong><hr></blockquote>

The front rotors were hard to find but that was about it. I got a set of xdrilled zimmermans and they are working well. I dont know if they run cool but they sure look cool.

I can't go dyno my car because I have a high performance throttle cam and the results will not come out true.

**snicker snicker**

FormulaOne10

Paul,

My car has a noticeable difference with the chip installed. The chip gave me well more than 2 hp. Probably more like 8-9hp at the wheels. However, my car was in excellent running condition with a top end rebuild less than 10k ago. 2 hp is not something I would even feel with the car. I have had other people do a before and after drive without them knowing which chip I was using and they felt a distinct difference. The power difference may be the gas you are using, or slight differences in your engine, etc. The only other engine mods I have are a free flowing muffler, MSD Blaster Coil, and a K&N Replacement Filter (all of which made absolutely no noticeable difference in power). Another thing to note also Paul - FR Wilk's chip is designed for a stock engine. His chip was not specialized for a free flowing exhaust or improved intake. Therefore the power gains of this chip on a modified engine could easily be less than the gains on a mostly stock engine. Your engine may have already been 8/10ths of the way to its projected potential before adding the chip. That chip may have only made up the last few tenths.

BTW - My Castrol Syntec Blend 20W-50 is easily the best mod to my car. It easily gives me the extra power to pass 996s and Corvettes on the straights. I think I may even be able to take on AMAF with this stuff <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />