will it go pop ?
07-11-2002, 12:44 PM
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will it go pop ?
Hello helpfull people...
I recently took a lot of advice from many different rennlist users and I would like to say a big thank you.
My 1988 NA 944 was suffering from the dreaded oil pressure relief valve syndrome.
I have now replaced the valve and filter with original porsche parts and have done an oil change with Mobil 1, 15/40w.
Just one thing, I need some advice about true levels of oil, so far I have added 6 liters of the stuff and the pressure guage is fine, I am slightly over the top of the dip stick full mark and really would like to know everyones opinion on slightly over filling.
Sorry but I dont know the proper conversion from litres to US quart stuff.
PS, its worth the money for the new valve.
I recently took a lot of advice from many different rennlist users and I would like to say a big thank you.
My 1988 NA 944 was suffering from the dreaded oil pressure relief valve syndrome.
I have now replaced the valve and filter with original porsche parts and have done an oil change with Mobil 1, 15/40w.
Just one thing, I need some advice about true levels of oil, so far I have added 6 liters of the stuff and the pressure guage is fine, I am slightly over the top of the dip stick full mark and really would like to know everyones opinion on slightly over filling.
Sorry but I dont know the proper conversion from litres to US quart stuff.
PS, its worth the money for the new valve.
07-11-2002, 01:01 PM
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[QUOTE]You should be fine.
I hope so ! but seeing as the oil pressure relief valve syndrome seems to strike a lot of the forum usersI think it would be nice to have an oil pressure god or guru to set the record straight for once and for all.
Many thanks for your input.
I hope so ! but seeing as the oil pressure relief valve syndrome seems to strike a lot of the forum usersI think it would be nice to have an oil pressure god or guru to set the record straight for once and for all.
Many thanks for your input.
07-11-2002, 01:41 PM
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John
1 quart is just over 1 liter.
Slightly overfilling could do no harm on a track car, would prevent it from starvation in cornering at high speeds.
For road use you better be carefull, oil passing through to the exhaust will kill the cat.
Please check when engine is cold.
If you are just above the top mark you are OK.
TakeCare
1 quart is just over 1 liter.
Slightly overfilling could do no harm on a track car, would prevent it from starvation in cornering at high speeds.
For road use you better be carefull, oil passing through to the exhaust will kill the cat.
Please check when engine is cold.
If you are just above the top mark you are OK.
TakeCare
07-11-2002, 02:24 PM
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Hello Hans,
Thanks for the advice, however my 1988 NA does not have a cat as far as I can see, however just took the car for a good run and at first hard acceleration got a cloud of oil smoke, guess I just learned my over fill lesson.
Thanks for the advice, however my 1988 NA does not have a cat as far as I can see, however just took the car for a good run and at first hard acceleration got a cloud of oil smoke, guess I just learned my over fill lesson.
07-11-2002, 07:57 PM
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I have to disagree Hans, 1 liter is just over a quart (I think that's probably what you meant). But as far as runnning overfilled, I don't subscribe to that. It's one thing to be just a smidge over the line, it's not easy to convert the liters/quarts thing exactly, but 1 quart over is WAAAYY too much. It can cause excessive oil splashing and result in foaming and maybe pump cavitation. It will almost certainly cause an otherwise tight engine to leak oil. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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07-11-2002, 08:19 PM
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I'll ride with Mark...
The 88 is a crossover year for the deeper sump and improved baffling - check to see if you have this by doing a visual on the oil pan... look for a flat round area in the middle of the finned pan bottom. If yes, then you have the updated pan and sump, so *less* danger of uncovering the pickup on cornering. This has been hung out on the list many times, but specifically on a street car you do more harm than good to overfill - certainly not up to a quart over. The pressure will go high, causing seal failures (you know the weak ones - rear main, front belt area, rear of cam cover, oil separator, etc), and the crank will whip you up a nice dark chocolate milk shake - very bad for oiling efficiency.
Also, Porsche released a specific TSB (in the archives here) to ensure dealers did_not, and would warn owners against, overfilling to prevent starvation. If you subscribe to another logic, it's not the starvation that causes the rod bearing problems, rather the oiling of the bearing surface itself - which is not fixable without yanking your crank (shutup, Beavis).
Also, street cars simply shouldn't be seeing the cornering forces needed to uncoverer the pickup IF: the oil level is correct. Simply checking the oil once per week or month is more than most do - so, that can be the night-n-day difference you're really looking for.
Don't overfill, but don't underfill either. Also, if you've done the conversion to the new pan, baffle, and pickup - then you should have changed the dipstick also. (not the one behind the wheel, the actual dipstick)
Good Luck!
The 88 is a crossover year for the deeper sump and improved baffling - check to see if you have this by doing a visual on the oil pan... look for a flat round area in the middle of the finned pan bottom. If yes, then you have the updated pan and sump, so *less* danger of uncovering the pickup on cornering. This has been hung out on the list many times, but specifically on a street car you do more harm than good to overfill - certainly not up to a quart over. The pressure will go high, causing seal failures (you know the weak ones - rear main, front belt area, rear of cam cover, oil separator, etc), and the crank will whip you up a nice dark chocolate milk shake - very bad for oiling efficiency.
Also, Porsche released a specific TSB (in the archives here) to ensure dealers did_not, and would warn owners against, overfilling to prevent starvation. If you subscribe to another logic, it's not the starvation that causes the rod bearing problems, rather the oiling of the bearing surface itself - which is not fixable without yanking your crank (shutup, Beavis).
Also, street cars simply shouldn't be seeing the cornering forces needed to uncoverer the pickup IF: the oil level is correct. Simply checking the oil once per week or month is more than most do - so, that can be the night-n-day difference you're really looking for.
Don't overfill, but don't underfill either. Also, if you've done the conversion to the new pan, baffle, and pickup - then you should have changed the dipstick also. (not the one behind the wheel, the actual dipstick)
Good Luck!
07-12-2002, 05:40 AM
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Mark: [quote] 1 liter is just over a quart <hr></blockquote>Actually 1 quart =0,946352946 liter.
Skip, Please note that the manual (the 6 vol bible) says in vol 1, Engine, page 06, Filling capacities:
"engine oil: App 6 liters. (volume depends on measurement with dip stick, see owners manual"
This is exactly what John did, and it resulted in the level slightly above the max mark.
Agree, do not overfill, this will do no good to the engine.
Disagree, incidental slightly overfill as described will not cause fatal damage.
Up to 1/4 liter overfill should do no harm.
Anyway: John is smoking so there is too much oil in there now.
Easiest way to get the surplus out is drop a hose in the dip-stick tube and vacuum / suck it out with an big siringe type thing.
(Slightly modified bike (hand) pump, (easy to get when you are in Belgium)(open the pump tube, pull out the plunger and reverse the piston, then it "sucks" from the bottom)
Or ket one of those things used in a kitchen to "pump" whipped cream or so (don't know the English name for this, but you get the idea).
Dont tell me you have a hose type rotary pump for this purpose...
TakeCare
Skip, Please note that the manual (the 6 vol bible) says in vol 1, Engine, page 06, Filling capacities:
"engine oil: App 6 liters. (volume depends on measurement with dip stick, see owners manual"
This is exactly what John did, and it resulted in the level slightly above the max mark.
Agree, do not overfill, this will do no good to the engine.
Disagree, incidental slightly overfill as described will not cause fatal damage.
Up to 1/4 liter overfill should do no harm.
Anyway: John is smoking so there is too much oil in there now.
Easiest way to get the surplus out is drop a hose in the dip-stick tube and vacuum / suck it out with an big siringe type thing.
(Slightly modified bike (hand) pump, (easy to get when you are in Belgium)(open the pump tube, pull out the plunger and reverse the piston, then it "sucks" from the bottom)
Or ket one of those things used in a kitchen to "pump" whipped cream or so (don't know the English name for this, but you get the idea).
Dont tell me you have a hose type rotary pump for this purpose...
TakeCare
07-12-2002, 09:38 AM
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Ooops.
Looks like I started smoking near a wasps nest on this subject.
Having inspected my sump I have got the later version with the round flat area.
I will try to remove some of the oil or anyhow this weekend I am due to go on a nice long gentle motorway drive from mid Belgium to Dunkirk (approx 200kms) so this should burn off most of the excess.
Once againa big thankyou to all participants, I am sure that others with this problem can benefit,
PS... does anyone know if the mike d has resolved his oil issue ?
Johnjcoyle.
Looks like I started smoking near a wasps nest on this subject.
Having inspected my sump I have got the later version with the round flat area.
I will try to remove some of the oil or anyhow this weekend I am due to go on a nice long gentle motorway drive from mid Belgium to Dunkirk (approx 200kms) so this should burn off most of the excess.
Once againa big thankyou to all participants, I am sure that others with this problem can benefit,
PS... does anyone know if the mike d has resolved his oil issue ?
Johnjcoyle.
07-12-2002, 10:15 AM
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[quote] ...smoking near a wasps nest.. <hr></blockquote>No john you didn't: its friday 
The new tray is slightly bigger in volume than the older style, so the 6 liters from the manual should be more or less correct.
I suspect you have a bit left over from before the change.
Enjoy the trip but might want to try and get some oil out first.
TakeCare
The new tray is slightly bigger in volume than the older style, so the 6 liters from the manual should be more or less correct.
I suspect you have a bit left over from before the change.
Enjoy the trip but might want to try and get some oil out first.
TakeCare
07-12-2002, 01:43 PM
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As long as we are on the oil fill topic, what's the recommended way of measuring the oil with the dipstick? With every car I have had, the reading varies depending on when it is taken. The following cases come to mind (1) in the morning after the car sits over night (2) cold but after driving a short distance (to get to a level spot) (3) fully warm and allowed to sit for 2 or 3 minutes. --Roy--
07-12-2002, 02:22 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Hans:
<strong>Skip, Please note that the manual (the 6 vol bible) says in vol 1, Engine, page 06, Filling capacities: "engine oil: App 6 liters. (volume depends on measurement with dip stick, see owners manual"</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed, and my comments weren't really directed towards the capacity (as draining the oil varies among owners), but more toward the comment or belief that overfilling is good or useful. A tinge over the full mark is nothing to worry about... adding a quart once full is realized is_not recommended.
You know I'd never disagreee with you anyways, Hans
[quote]<strong>one of those things used in a kitchen to "pump" whipped cream </strong><hr></blockquote>
Anything in the kitchen stock is strictly verbotten in my house... after that control arm in the freezer incident... and the leftover oil in the turkey baster
S
<strong>Skip, Please note that the manual (the 6 vol bible) says in vol 1, Engine, page 06, Filling capacities: "engine oil: App 6 liters. (volume depends on measurement with dip stick, see owners manual"</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed, and my comments weren't really directed towards the capacity (as draining the oil varies among owners), but more toward the comment or belief that overfilling is good or useful. A tinge over the full mark is nothing to worry about... adding a quart once full is realized is_not recommended.
You know I'd never disagreee with you anyways, Hans
[quote]<strong>one of those things used in a kitchen to "pump" whipped cream </strong><hr></blockquote>
Anything in the kitchen stock is strictly verbotten in my house... after that control arm in the freezer incident... and the leftover oil in the turkey baster
S
07-12-2002, 02:32 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Roy LaZelle:
<strong>As long as we are on the oil fill topic, what's the recommended way of measuring the oil with the dipstick?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I find that most dipsticks are unable or unwilling to measure oil early in the morning - best to wait until after lunch. Also, I've not met a dipstick yet that could measure the oil the same twice... so YDMV (Your Dipstick May Vary) I do have one resident dipstick at the local Chevron trained well enough to check and fill the washer bottle... but, it tooks years and years of random beatings.
[quote]<strong>With every car I have had, the reading varies depending on when it is taken. The following cases come to mind (1) in the morning after the car sits over night (2) cold but after driving a short distance (to get to a level spot) (3) fully warm and allowed to sit for 2 or 3 minutes. --Roy--</strong><hr></blockquote>
First, say thank you to Porsche for not making it so hard as the 911's... checking oil levels on the air-cooled cars is a bit of an art. As with most cars, I think 944 levels should be measured with the oil warm - maybe 20 minutes after driving at full temp. I wish auto engine would start using the windows that you see on most motorcycles... a quick glance can save your a$$, and even tell of impending doom - such as that chocolate milk shake you didn't order but will have to pay for (having blown two head gaskets on Kaw's)
Skip
<strong>As long as we are on the oil fill topic, what's the recommended way of measuring the oil with the dipstick?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I find that most dipsticks are unable or unwilling to measure oil early in the morning - best to wait until after lunch. Also, I've not met a dipstick yet that could measure the oil the same twice... so YDMV (Your Dipstick May Vary) I do have one resident dipstick at the local Chevron trained well enough to check and fill the washer bottle... but, it tooks years and years of random beatings.
[quote]<strong>With every car I have had, the reading varies depending on when it is taken. The following cases come to mind (1) in the morning after the car sits over night (2) cold but after driving a short distance (to get to a level spot) (3) fully warm and allowed to sit for 2 or 3 minutes. --Roy--</strong><hr></blockquote>
First, say thank you to Porsche for not making it so hard as the 911's... checking oil levels on the air-cooled cars is a bit of an art. As with most cars, I think 944 levels should be measured with the oil warm - maybe 20 minutes after driving at full temp. I wish auto engine would start using the windows that you see on most motorcycles... a quick glance can save your a$$, and even tell of impending doom - such as that chocolate milk shake you didn't order but will have to pay for (having blown two head gaskets on Kaw's)
Skip