Replacement Torque Tube bearings
01-25-2003, 10:18 PM
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Replacement Torque Tube bearings
We will get a part number for a Porsche part that is not listed or stocked!
I have found two numbers so far for the Torque Tube bearings;
First one from Greg's Home, 928 Tips:
6006 2Z C5 HT51
Where 6006 is the series (metric), 2Z is a double shield, C5 is the running clearance, and HT51 is high temperature grease.
The running clearance goes from C1 to C5, with C1 being the lowest and C5 having the most radial clearance. My supplier stocks C3 for electric motors and they run $10, he doesn’t stock the number above. He stated that the application for the number above was in a high temperature, high speed application. The C5 bearing allows for the most expansion with heat. The double shield allows the bearing to be used in high temp and high speed application.
<a href="http://www.skf.com.mk/skfnews/Stainless%20DGBB.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.skf.com.mk/skfnews/Stainless%20DGBB.pdf</a>
Maybe some torque tube rebuilds use the 6006 C3 which is a common bearing in the bearing supply world. This could explain the reason for the rebuilt failures.
Second number from a Rennlist search, I think this is from your write-up Martin:
6006ZB C4
The 6006 is the series but I can’t find a cross to the ZB, I guess this is also a double shield number.
Here is a cross of the different supplies.
FAFNIR 9106KDD
MRC 106KSFF
NSK 6006-ZZ
SKF 6006-2Z
NTN 6006-ZZ
The C4 also has a tighter radial clearance then the C4 and there is no reference to the HT51 grease. The standard grease is rated at 230 DegF and the HT51 is rated at 287DegF. Note that SKF doesn’t list a C5 option.
<a href="http://www.eis-inc.com/oem/catalog/pdfs/bearings/SKF.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.eis-inc.com/oem/catalog/pdfs/bearings/SKF.pdf</a>
Does anyone have access to an ORIGINAL torque tube bearing? The number should be stamped on the bearing.
I have found two numbers so far for the Torque Tube bearings;
First one from Greg's Home, 928 Tips:
6006 2Z C5 HT51
Where 6006 is the series (metric), 2Z is a double shield, C5 is the running clearance, and HT51 is high temperature grease.
The running clearance goes from C1 to C5, with C1 being the lowest and C5 having the most radial clearance. My supplier stocks C3 for electric motors and they run $10, he doesn’t stock the number above. He stated that the application for the number above was in a high temperature, high speed application. The C5 bearing allows for the most expansion with heat. The double shield allows the bearing to be used in high temp and high speed application.
<a href="http://www.skf.com.mk/skfnews/Stainless%20DGBB.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.skf.com.mk/skfnews/Stainless%20DGBB.pdf</a>
Maybe some torque tube rebuilds use the 6006 C3 which is a common bearing in the bearing supply world. This could explain the reason for the rebuilt failures.
Second number from a Rennlist search, I think this is from your write-up Martin:
6006ZB C4
The 6006 is the series but I can’t find a cross to the ZB, I guess this is also a double shield number.
Here is a cross of the different supplies.
FAFNIR 9106KDD
MRC 106KSFF
NSK 6006-ZZ
SKF 6006-2Z
NTN 6006-ZZ
The C4 also has a tighter radial clearance then the C4 and there is no reference to the HT51 grease. The standard grease is rated at 230 DegF and the HT51 is rated at 287DegF. Note that SKF doesn’t list a C5 option.
<a href="http://www.eis-inc.com/oem/catalog/pdfs/bearings/SKF.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.eis-inc.com/oem/catalog/pdfs/bearings/SKF.pdf</a>
Does anyone have access to an ORIGINAL torque tube bearing? The number should be stamped on the bearing.
01-26-2003, 08:22 AM
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I used the 6006ZB C4 as that was what came out of my tube, I simply took the bearing in to my local supplier and the hunt began, It looks like a standard bearing but is quite rare, I can't see the grease getting that hot in a torque tube.
Here is what I wrote below.
To recondition a Torque tube:
Order 4 of 6006ZB C4 Bearings, they are an odd size and can be hard to
locate (at least in New Zealand) so get them first.
Remove the Torque tube from the car, this can be done without disconnecting
the brake lines or cables, but it may be easier to do so (the transmission
must be removed first).
Measure how far into the tube each of the end bearings are located from the
end, mark the tube or write it down.
Get a piece of steel pipe that fits over the drive shaft, the thicker the
pipe the better.
I added a flat piece to the end that pushed evenly on the bearing housing so
as not to deform or twist it.
Remove the shaft by belting the hell out of it, I held the tube in a vice
and had an assistant steady the end of the pipe while I hit it with a sledge
hammer (this can be done with threaded rods as a puller but is not
necessary)
After the shaft and bearings are out I put the end of the shaft against a
block of wood and belted the bearings down the shaft with just the weight
and impact of the steel pipe.
After the bearings are removed press the plastic sleeve out of the inside of
the bearing (a socket and a hammer will do this) do not throw these away as
they are reused.
Next drill the six rivets out of the bearing retainers (5mm drill bit) and
separate the two halves, later cars do not have riveted bearing carriers
(easier).
Throw the old bearings away and reassemble the new bearings in the housings
with new rivets if necessary, I ground part of the rivets away so it would
fit in the
groove (this is obvious when you can see it), I also used a small spacer
between the rivet gun and the rivets so they would pull in evenly.
I then pushed the shaft in from the gearbox end with the bearing closest to
that end fitted to the shaft, the shaft goes in until it is 49mm +/- 0.5mm
from the edge of the gearbox end bellhousing (specs from factory manual).
Next I put the assembly hard up against a solid wall with a piece of wood
jammed between the driveshaft and the wall, this stops the drive shaft
sliding back out when fitting the other bearings.
Next I installed the bearings by pushing the housings down to there
appropriate position with the steel pipe, I put marks on the pipe so I
wouldn't push the bearings too far.
After installing all four check the shaft end is still 49mm +/- 0.5mm from
the edge of the gearbox end bellhousing.
The new bearings are quieter than the old ones but not silent.
Total cost was 110$ NZ (including shipping the bearings from Japan) about
55$US
Not too difficult but time consuming.
Here is what I wrote below.
To recondition a Torque tube:
Order 4 of 6006ZB C4 Bearings, they are an odd size and can be hard to
locate (at least in New Zealand) so get them first.
Remove the Torque tube from the car, this can be done without disconnecting
the brake lines or cables, but it may be easier to do so (the transmission
must be removed first).
Measure how far into the tube each of the end bearings are located from the
end, mark the tube or write it down.
Get a piece of steel pipe that fits over the drive shaft, the thicker the
pipe the better.
I added a flat piece to the end that pushed evenly on the bearing housing so
as not to deform or twist it.
Remove the shaft by belting the hell out of it, I held the tube in a vice
and had an assistant steady the end of the pipe while I hit it with a sledge
hammer (this can be done with threaded rods as a puller but is not
necessary)
After the shaft and bearings are out I put the end of the shaft against a
block of wood and belted the bearings down the shaft with just the weight
and impact of the steel pipe.
After the bearings are removed press the plastic sleeve out of the inside of
the bearing (a socket and a hammer will do this) do not throw these away as
they are reused.
Next drill the six rivets out of the bearing retainers (5mm drill bit) and
separate the two halves, later cars do not have riveted bearing carriers
(easier).
Throw the old bearings away and reassemble the new bearings in the housings
with new rivets if necessary, I ground part of the rivets away so it would
fit in the
groove (this is obvious when you can see it), I also used a small spacer
between the rivet gun and the rivets so they would pull in evenly.
I then pushed the shaft in from the gearbox end with the bearing closest to
that end fitted to the shaft, the shaft goes in until it is 49mm +/- 0.5mm
from the edge of the gearbox end bellhousing (specs from factory manual).
Next I put the assembly hard up against a solid wall with a piece of wood
jammed between the driveshaft and the wall, this stops the drive shaft
sliding back out when fitting the other bearings.
Next I installed the bearings by pushing the housings down to there
appropriate position with the steel pipe, I put marks on the pipe so I
wouldn't push the bearings too far.
After installing all four check the shaft end is still 49mm +/- 0.5mm from
the edge of the gearbox end bellhousing.
The new bearings are quieter than the old ones but not silent.
Total cost was 110$ NZ (including shipping the bearings from Japan) about
55$US
Not too difficult but time consuming.
01-27-2003, 12:57 AM
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I'm in serious need of these. who wants to spend $200-500 when you can spend $15 on each bearing?
I can see the Torque Tube heating up, as this spins very fast, the same speed as the engine.
I can see the Torque Tube heating up, as this spins very fast, the same speed as the engine.
01-27-2003, 10:27 PM
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Brendon Champion sent me a link to A&W bearing that has a SKF bearing 6006ZZC4HT for $12.56 and it looks like they stock it. I will call tomorrow. Martin used a C4 in his car, I will see what is in my TT soon.
<a href="http://www.awbearings.com/awbearings/dbinfo.asp?key=728837&Product=B" target="_blank">http://www.awbearings.com/awbearings/dbinfo.asp?key=728837&Product=B</a>
<a href="http://www.awbearings.com/awbearings/dbinfo.asp?key=728837&Product=B" target="_blank">http://www.awbearings.com/awbearings/dbinfo.asp?key=728837&Product=B</a>
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01-28-2003, 03:16 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Ryan Smith:
I can see the Torque Tube heating up, as this spins very fast, the same speed as the engine.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I would think it would have more to do with the fact that it lives directly above the exhaust (especially the cat) than with the actual friction, but I'm not a thermodynamicist.
<img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />
I can see the Torque Tube heating up, as this spins very fast, the same speed as the engine.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I would think it would have more to do with the fact that it lives directly above the exhaust (especially the cat) than with the actual friction, but I'm not a thermodynamicist.
<img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />
01-29-2003, 01:09 AM
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John, I would agree about the exhaust, I am sure the speed add to this ambient heat of the exhaust and the CAT. Martin, I think I found a supplier in Texas.
I talked to A&W bearing and they can order the 6006 ZZ C4 HT. I am going to order four, the cost should be around $60. It should take around two weeks if all goes well, anyone want to join in just drop me a Email and I will add it to the order.
I talked to A&W bearing and they can order the 6006 ZZ C4 HT. I am going to order four, the cost should be around $60. It should take around two weeks if all goes well, anyone want to join in just drop me a Email and I will add it to the order.
01-28-2005, 04:41 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Martin
After the bearings are removed press the plastic sleeve out of the inside of the bearing (a socket and a hammer will do this) do not throw these away as they are reused.
Next drill the six rivets out of the bearing retainers (5mm drill bit) and separate the two halves, later cars do not have riveted bearing carriers (easier).
Next drill the six rivets out of the bearing retainers (5mm drill bit) and separate the two halves, later cars do not have riveted bearing carriers (easier).
I am in the process of replacing the bearings on a 944 S2 torque tube. There are only 3 bearings in a 944 S2 torque tube, and as you say the bearings carriers are not riveted. It looks like the bearings are held in the carriers with huge stress, and there is no way to get them out by hand. I cannot figure out how to pull the bearings out without damaging the carriers.
Also, I cannot figure out how to remove the black inner plastic sleeves : see red circles on the second picture below : it looks like taking those sleeves away means it won't be possible to reuse them later.
If I cannot find a way to take the bearings out their carriers and if I damage the inner sleeves, I am quite simply f***ed.
Any help truly appreciated.
By the way, those bearings are : *** 6006 C5 FB
01-28-2005, 07:02 PM
#13
Nordschleife Master
I will need to replace the bearings on my torque tube as well (the one closest to the tranny). Makes a rattling sound when reving the engine in neutral and sort of a 'crackling' when bringing the car up to the upper RPM range.
Whenever the clutch needs to be done then this will get taken care of.
Whenever the clutch needs to be done then this will get taken care of.
01-28-2005, 10:35 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Martin's instruction are very good but Clark has an excellent 'how-to' :
http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/trans-05.htm
I wonder where Martin Taylor is...his last post was over a year ago
hope all is well
http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/trans-05.htm
I wonder where Martin Taylor is...his last post was over a year ago
hope all is well
01-29-2005, 12:31 AM
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Good luck replacing the bearings with an equivalent, if it's still in stock. I found several bearing houses list the size, but are currently not in stock, but they'd gladly make you a run of 1000. So one thing led to another and now I just make a whole new torque tube from aluminum using sealed bearings with HT grease and the correct C4 clearance. On the stock tube, the bearing most likely to be bad is the one nearest the transmission. As for rebuilding one, you have to get the carriers out, they are a press fit. You also have to get the bearings out of the carriers, again, a press fit. You also have to salvage the bushing, again, a press fit. There is a replacement out there, but it's nylon. Good luck, I'm going back to making my own when I can get a couple days free again.