Porsche Quality!
07-08-2003, 05:53 PM
#16
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Ag951 got the right source....CNN.and yes, it's defects/100 cars, so lowest number is best! One thing to notice: Where is Mercedes? The article says the ML and the E-Class have been pretty bad!!
I thought it was interesting data. It's for three years. I too would like to see what some of these boxes will look like after 15+ years!!
-Steve
I thought it was interesting data. It's for three years. I too would like to see what some of these boxes will look like after 15+ years!!
-Steve
07-08-2003, 06:03 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ahofam123:
<strong>Maybe Porsche has better quality right off the showroom floor, but I would rather have a poorly maintained Toyota or Honda than a poorly maintained Porsche (i.e. mine when I bought it) in terms of quality and costs.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">well thats because that toyota or honda wasn't engineered for maximum performance like our cars were. if you neglect maintenance on a car thats tuned to perform, you're going to have problems, while cars that are meant to get groceries aren't going to be as problematic when neglected.
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-Michael-
<strong>Maybe Porsche has better quality right off the showroom floor, but I would rather have a poorly maintained Toyota or Honda than a poorly maintained Porsche (i.e. mine when I bought it) in terms of quality and costs.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">well thats because that toyota or honda wasn't engineered for maximum performance like our cars were. if you neglect maintenance on a car thats tuned to perform, you're going to have problems, while cars that are meant to get groceries aren't going to be as problematic when neglected.
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07-08-2003, 06:27 PM
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Wouldn't that be defects/1000 cars? Hard to have 200+ defects per 100 cars unless they are just scraping ones that don't pass QC!! LOL.. I can just see the back lot of the factory piled with brand new scrap cars.....
07-08-2003, 07:35 PM
#21
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Well thats not necessarily the case. Supra Turbos, NSXs et are tuned to perform just as much as a Boxster or whatever. I do believe Porsche quality has come a LONG way since the 80s which is what my cars are.
Thats said, theres no comparison whatsoever in terms of build quality on my moms former 86 Supra and my 86 951. I love the 944/951 three times as much, but the overall build quality outside of the engine's performance is not overly impressive in my opinion. That Supra was built like a tank. Was as reliable as a pack mule, had cool items my Porsche doesnt have like dual 100-way Recaros, and an A/C that never needed attention. Not to say I like an 86 Supra more. Fuggedaboudit. Im merely demonstrating how Porsche cut corners. I know Im just asking to be roasted, but looking back, a new 951 back in 1986 was around $32,000 or so. Today thats like a $50,000 car. Maybe its just me but $50,000 cars should be able to crap thunder 24/7/365 for 250,000 miles. Rear decks shouldnt leak - ever. Footwells shouldnt leak - ever. Moonroofs should work - always. A/C should work more than 7-10yrs before needing entirely overhauled. Seat motors shouldnt go south. Armrest covers shouldnt break off in the first 500 miles. And Im saying all of this readily admitting Im one of the lucky ones who has few problems with my pcars. Hell I wouldnt have just dumped 31 large on a second pcar if I didnt love the boogers.
I guess what Im saying is, maintenance and fixing things are just the cost of owning one of these cars. Im more than willing to pay it and have done so. And the overall body structure and engine are built to last a nuclear war. But most drivers arent concerned with an engine that can survive a nuclear war, they just want to get from A to B without being stranded. Whats the point if it can survive a nuclear blast but blows relays every other day. The performance in these cars is always there, but its all the little things that I think Porsche for years simply nickeled and dimed their way around -- perhaps justifiably so -- because people with fat pockets had fat pockets to fix them. All the Gordon Geckos.
I think if you are shelling out $50 grand on a new Porsche, it better run and perform and be built to the specs of Jesus himself. Its not a question as to whether it can be done for less or not. We know it can. I love German engineering as much as the next guy, but the Jap engineering a lot of us make jokes about (including me) could hand a lot of Porsches their *** if the truth be known. Thats not to say Id rather own a Nissan over a Porsche. You are missing my point. My point is Porsche is doing pretty well now in terms of quality control but they dont crap any more thunder just because their name is Porsche. I dont believe in some "secret sauce" inside Zuffenhausen that makes great performing cars. They just build great performing cars. Theres still no excuse for the Hyundai-type interior of a $50,000 Boxster. Its just inexcusable. Maybe thats why its a $50,000 Boxster and not a $65,000 Boxster. Who knows.
I'll probably die before I sell either of mine (as Charlton Heston says, "From my cold dead hands"). But like any car Ive owned, they postively annoy me and make me say "You gotta be ****ting me" about as often as I floor the accelerator and utter the words "You gotta be ****tng me" with a grin on my face. Thats a big reason I love them as much as I do though. They challenge me to love them. Anybody can love a Camry, but it takes a special person to be in a long-term relationship with a bad girl. Porsches are the bad girls. They are vinyl-wearing vixens. They make you feel like a million bucks, but sometimes a vixen pours a drink in your face for no apparent reason. You thought you were a good guy. You minded your manners. Yet boing, something takes a nosedive.
Now is about the time Wade hits me on the head with his 270K mile clutch. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> I probably deserve it. Im probably being a bit harsh too. Maybe I expect perfection in too many places. I think the perect hybrid vehicle would consist of a Porsche engine, a Lotus chassis, a Honda interior, and a Lexus quality control guy.
Be gentle. I know not what I say. Im a victim of my own environment. They beat me like a circus midget over here at work and tell me I will like it. <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" />
Thats said, theres no comparison whatsoever in terms of build quality on my moms former 86 Supra and my 86 951. I love the 944/951 three times as much, but the overall build quality outside of the engine's performance is not overly impressive in my opinion. That Supra was built like a tank. Was as reliable as a pack mule, had cool items my Porsche doesnt have like dual 100-way Recaros, and an A/C that never needed attention. Not to say I like an 86 Supra more. Fuggedaboudit. Im merely demonstrating how Porsche cut corners. I know Im just asking to be roasted, but looking back, a new 951 back in 1986 was around $32,000 or so. Today thats like a $50,000 car. Maybe its just me but $50,000 cars should be able to crap thunder 24/7/365 for 250,000 miles. Rear decks shouldnt leak - ever. Footwells shouldnt leak - ever. Moonroofs should work - always. A/C should work more than 7-10yrs before needing entirely overhauled. Seat motors shouldnt go south. Armrest covers shouldnt break off in the first 500 miles. And Im saying all of this readily admitting Im one of the lucky ones who has few problems with my pcars. Hell I wouldnt have just dumped 31 large on a second pcar if I didnt love the boogers.
I guess what Im saying is, maintenance and fixing things are just the cost of owning one of these cars. Im more than willing to pay it and have done so. And the overall body structure and engine are built to last a nuclear war. But most drivers arent concerned with an engine that can survive a nuclear war, they just want to get from A to B without being stranded. Whats the point if it can survive a nuclear blast but blows relays every other day. The performance in these cars is always there, but its all the little things that I think Porsche for years simply nickeled and dimed their way around -- perhaps justifiably so -- because people with fat pockets had fat pockets to fix them. All the Gordon Geckos.
I think if you are shelling out $50 grand on a new Porsche, it better run and perform and be built to the specs of Jesus himself. Its not a question as to whether it can be done for less or not. We know it can. I love German engineering as much as the next guy, but the Jap engineering a lot of us make jokes about (including me) could hand a lot of Porsches their *** if the truth be known. Thats not to say Id rather own a Nissan over a Porsche. You are missing my point. My point is Porsche is doing pretty well now in terms of quality control but they dont crap any more thunder just because their name is Porsche. I dont believe in some "secret sauce" inside Zuffenhausen that makes great performing cars. They just build great performing cars. Theres still no excuse for the Hyundai-type interior of a $50,000 Boxster. Its just inexcusable. Maybe thats why its a $50,000 Boxster and not a $65,000 Boxster. Who knows.
I'll probably die before I sell either of mine (as Charlton Heston says, "From my cold dead hands"). But like any car Ive owned, they postively annoy me and make me say "You gotta be ****ting me" about as often as I floor the accelerator and utter the words "You gotta be ****tng me" with a grin on my face. Thats a big reason I love them as much as I do though. They challenge me to love them. Anybody can love a Camry, but it takes a special person to be in a long-term relationship with a bad girl. Porsches are the bad girls. They are vinyl-wearing vixens. They make you feel like a million bucks, but sometimes a vixen pours a drink in your face for no apparent reason. You thought you were a good guy. You minded your manners. Yet boing, something takes a nosedive.
Now is about the time Wade hits me on the head with his 270K mile clutch. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> I probably deserve it. Im probably being a bit harsh too. Maybe I expect perfection in too many places. I think the perect hybrid vehicle would consist of a Porsche engine, a Lotus chassis, a Honda interior, and a Lexus quality control guy.
Be gentle. I know not what I say. Im a victim of my own environment. They beat me like a circus midget over here at work and tell me I will like it. <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" />
07-08-2003, 07:40 PM
#22
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ERAU-944:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ahofam123:
<strong>Maybe Porsche has better quality right off the showroom floor, but I would rather have a poorly maintained Toyota or Honda than a poorly maintained Porsche (i.e. mine when I bought it) in terms of quality and costs.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">well thats because that toyota or honda wasn't engineered for maximum performance like our cars were. if you neglect maintenance on a car thats tuned to perform, you're going to have problems, while cars that are meant to get groceries aren't going to be as problematic when neglected.
Fast
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- Pick any 2
-Michael-</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yeah, I know. I would still take my abused 944 over a toyota or a honda as long as I am able to do the work myself and have the time to actually drive the car. I still find it odd though that Porsche outscored the Japanese even though the 996, the 986, and the cayenne are built for speed first and quality second.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ahofam123:
<strong>Maybe Porsche has better quality right off the showroom floor, but I would rather have a poorly maintained Toyota or Honda than a poorly maintained Porsche (i.e. mine when I bought it) in terms of quality and costs.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">well thats because that toyota or honda wasn't engineered for maximum performance like our cars were. if you neglect maintenance on a car thats tuned to perform, you're going to have problems, while cars that are meant to get groceries aren't going to be as problematic when neglected.
Fast
Cheap
Reliable
- Pick any 2
-Michael-</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yeah, I know. I would still take my abused 944 over a toyota or a honda as long as I am able to do the work myself and have the time to actually drive the car. I still find it odd though that Porsche outscored the Japanese even though the 996, the 986, and the cayenne are built for speed first and quality second.
07-09-2003, 09:19 AM
#24
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Here's a more detailed article with more data and analysis.
<a href="http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6188" target="_blank">http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6188</a>
<a href="http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6188" target="_blank">http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6188</a>
07-09-2003, 06:52 PM
#26
Geaux Tigers!
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Well put UD. I'd take my Honda's on a long trip anyday and never in the Porsche but I'd take the Porsche to the track anyday and never in the Honda's.
07-09-2003, 07:17 PM
#27
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Oh, so entertaining! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />