86 951 Driver

I really want to try this stuff out, but at the same time I don't want my car to explode. I hear some good stories about it actually restore compression after 500 miles, but than also I have heard that it doesn't do much. I'm for sure giong to run 20w-50 next oil change hopefully high mileage oil or racing oil VR-1.

944Ross

Restore is apparently a lot like SeaFoam, it will loosen stuck rings, lifters, etc., but if your rings are worn, it won't help.

86 951 Driver

I just can't accpet that my car needs rings. It has decent compression 5 years ago and it always has done this. I thought maybe it was the valve seat/seals.

hacker-pschorr

Question for everyone claiming "you must have high ZDDP for older engines" answer me this one question:

1. when was the last time you saw a camshaft failure with a 944?

Why a camshaft? Because this is where the ZDDP is needed, for the flat tappet cams in our cars. The rings, bearings etc.... is irrelevant. It's the cams / lifters that are supposedly an issue.

I'm asking since I'm not sure myself. I'm use VR1 racing oil in my cars since it has a proven high level of ZDDP, why take chances.

I've read a few studies / comments from engine builders who claim it's only an issue when breaking in new cams / lifters. This is why most engine break in oils have a very high level of ZDDP. Once past the break in period, it doesn't matter.

1. "never been better" - can you be more specific?
2. Do some more research on Brad Penn, I've seen some oil analysis that show the ZDDP levels are not all they advertise. I'm not 100% sold on the analysis being 100% accurate either.

Yes.

The blue bottle of STP oil treatment you see on the shelf is simply a thick oil loaded with ZDDP.

If you are talking about GM E.O.S. - that is for break in, had an obscene amount of ZDDP to the point of overkill. Yes you can add too much.

You just said you were going to try the GM stuff.

944Ross

ZDDP level isn't as critical on any cam/lifter that is already broken in. I don't know of any epidemic of failures on any brand/type of engine that is already broken in, it's where a new cam/lifters are involved, and especially on OHV engines with high valve spring pressures and break-in procedres aren't followed (20 minutes at 2,000 RPM -- do you blame them?).

MAGK944

From www.lnengineering.com:
I have been using a mineral diesel oil for over three years in a 944 dialy driver road car. I have no oil leaks and no tappet noise apart from a brief 1/2 second tap on start up. This is in FL with temps in the 80-90's most all year and lots of long trips down I-95. I use a Shell Rotella T 15W-40 which has a ZDDP content of 0.121% and change it once a year (about 8k miles). It's cheap, it's quite, it doesn't leak out everywhere and I would recommend it on any road car.

Just my 2c worth

eniac

That's why we are so upset he put it in. There was no reason to do anything to it at all. He's an old school part time mechanic who works on mainly old american cars and thinks that gas and oil additives are a good thing to prevent problems.

That's a good question, I have no idea why he put that crap in there. I have read plenty of reports about Restore gumming up the oil. When I drained the oil out of her BMW it was as thin as water. I'm afraid it did react with the oil and gummed it up just as I have read. What's left of the oil is the thin crap I drained out. I don't know how much longer the engine will last but I had to do three oil changes just to get the oil pressure light to stay off at an idle. I am convinced that Restore gummed up the oil passages and limited oil flow to or from the pump. Oil pressure seems to be ok now but it still has the knock.

Restore might be ok on old american cars with wide tolorances but on a german engine where wear limits are critical, anything claiming to fix an problem will most likely make it worse.

944Ross

Lots of the old-carguys use Rotella or Delo400 for similar reasons, but you have to remember that the overall additive package for diesels is not the same as a gas engine formula. There could be long-term effects.

If you go to a farm/fleet supply house you can usually still find the older diesel formulas (CH ?) with higher ZDDP and phosphate levels, and at a very decent price, but may be in 5-gallon buckets. Many off-road (construction/farm equipment) diesels absolutely require the higher ZDDP and phosphate levels.

choinga

That's why I use Brad Penn - it's as high quality as you can get and it already has the ZDDP additives in the appropriate proportion for our engines. I love it - my 951 runs great, great pressure, no leaks and I live in Austin, TX where it's already been 95+ every day for the past week and it's not even summer yet. 20W-50 for me...

I honestly can't understand why people put stuff in their engines without fully understanding the ramifications - especially when there's nothing wrong and they do it for 'preventative maintenace'. As someone mentioned earlier - if your car isn't running right the odds are slim that a $7 bottle of something is going to fix it - ESPECIALLY a Porsche.

It only takes one experience with cleaning Fix-a-Flat out of a tire to fully understand that.

MAGK944

I was worried about adverse effects too, but after running it for a year I sent a sample for testing to lnengineering (btw, great service for $25) and the oil was close to original viscosity and showed negligible content from engine wear. Here's a PCA article a couple of years ago about porsche oils and additives. It actually recommends Shell Rotella as a mineral oil for early 911's.

PCA Tech Article from Panorama Jan 2008

hacker-pschorr

Like I said above, do some more research - there have been some independent oil analysis posted on other forums showing Brad Penn with not so great ZDDP levels. If I had saved the links I would post them.

Pressure, lifter noise (or lack of) leaks etc... have nothing to do with ZDDP.

Even the idea of "good pressure" is misleading since oil flow is far more important. High oil pressure does not necessarily mean good oil flow.
Back in the 60's and 70's certain domestic V8's were notorious for throwing rod bearings. The #1 fix was opening up the side clearance on the rod bearings to increase oil flow. Funny thinsgis, this would lower the working pressure on the gauge.....

The fact is ZDDP is recommended / required for engines with flat tappet lifters (like the 944) and even more so in cars with radical cam profiles & stiff valve springs (the 944 does not fall into this category).

The only oil related failure I'm aware of with 944's is the #2 rod bearing. ZDDP has zero effect on this. When your cams / lifters start showing signs of premature or abnormal wear, then start worrying about the ZDDP content.

Amber Gramps

For the record Lucas Oil is a customer of mine and I do not at all agree that it is crap. You should expand your research of the product beyond the point of purchase display and try it in the real world. :shakeheadwalkaway:

Now back to your regular programming.

V2Rocket

i use plain old pennzoil 20w50 in my engine but my trans is heavy duty lucasoil gear oil and ive never had a problem with it

Mike C.

None of the additives are a substitute for regular oil/filter changes. If it makes you feel good, add the stuff; hopefully it will do no harm...

RedRose

My mechanic (drives a 944) recommended I use Seafoam every once in a while with a tank of gas, just to help keep the engine clean. Should I not do this? It always seems to run just a tad better for a while, then goes back to normality.