Should 944 steering feel "light" or "heavy"?
07-08-2002, 06:38 PM
#1
Racer
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Should 944 steering feel "light" or "heavy"?
I recently rebuilt the front suspension on my car including new A-arm ball joints and new tie rods. I also ordered a rebuilt PS rack that I installed. I'm running 16" Fuchs wheels.
After driving the car for about 1,000 miles since the rebuild, my overall impression of the steering is somewhat disappointing. Specifically, there seems to be more resistance to movement when turning the steering wheel than before the rebuild. This is most noticeable at low speeds (i.e. <40 MPH). My arms get a workout everytime I try to park the car. Also, my "turn-in" feels vague. It seems like I need to put a lot more steering input into the car to get it to hit the apex of a turn.
For comparison, I would describe the Boxster's steering as "light" and "quick" while my 944 is "heavy" and "slow." I did have a 4 wheel alignment to "factory specs" just after the rebuild.
Is it possible that my PS pump is going out? How can I tell if the pump is going bad? Any other thoughts on what might be going on with the car or does this behavior sound normal with the new suspension components?
After driving the car for about 1,000 miles since the rebuild, my overall impression of the steering is somewhat disappointing. Specifically, there seems to be more resistance to movement when turning the steering wheel than before the rebuild. This is most noticeable at low speeds (i.e. <40 MPH). My arms get a workout everytime I try to park the car. Also, my "turn-in" feels vague. It seems like I need to put a lot more steering input into the car to get it to hit the apex of a turn.
For comparison, I would describe the Boxster's steering as "light" and "quick" while my 944 is "heavy" and "slow." I did have a 4 wheel alignment to "factory specs" just after the rebuild.
Is it possible that my PS pump is going out? How can I tell if the pump is going bad? Any other thoughts on what might be going on with the car or does this behavior sound normal with the new suspension components?
07-08-2002, 07:02 PM
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What did you get for the caster value? This can contribute to the "heavy" feeling you are having. More caster will allow the car to track straight easier, but make the steering feel heavier.
As a data point, mine is set to 2.5deg and it feels great, but this is a subjective thing. As I haven't driven a Boxster recently, I cannot compare the feeling.
HTH,
As a data point, mine is set to 2.5deg and it feels great, but this is a subjective thing. As I haven't driven a Boxster recently, I cannot compare the feeling.
HTH,
07-08-2002, 07:51 PM
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im somewhat new to porsches and to renlist. i was wondering if the late 1985 944n/a has power steering because mine feels extremely heavy, but it does track quite straight down the road unless you hit a bump in which case the wheel will try to turn abruptly.
07-08-2002, 07:59 PM
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All 944s from 1984 on came with power steering. Look under your hood, if you have 2 belts, you have power steering.
It was an option on 1983 models. Also, manual steering can be retro-fited.
It was an option on 1983 models. Also, manual steering can be retro-fited.
07-08-2002, 08:09 PM
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On a related topic, is the power steering rack "self centering?" I noticed that after my alignment I need to turn the wheel about 10 degrees to the right of center to keep the car going straight on most roads.
However, if I let go of the wheel, it has a strong tendency to return to center taking the car to the left. Is it possible that this is the PS rack going to the position of lowest pressure?
I thought that maybe the roads are sloped to one side which would require a slight steering input to keep the car going straight. However, after about 1,000 miles, this is getting pretty annoying (and tiring for my hands). I think that the alignment shop did the best they could using the splines on the steering wheel. I'm thinking that the next step is to get the wheel perfectly centered using the tie rod ends (while back on the alignment rack).
Thoughts and opinions??
However, if I let go of the wheel, it has a strong tendency to return to center taking the car to the left. Is it possible that this is the PS rack going to the position of lowest pressure?
I thought that maybe the roads are sloped to one side which would require a slight steering input to keep the car going straight. However, after about 1,000 miles, this is getting pretty annoying (and tiring for my hands). I think that the alignment shop did the best they could using the splines on the steering wheel. I'm thinking that the next step is to get the wheel perfectly centered using the tie rod ends (while back on the alignment rack).
Thoughts and opinions??
07-08-2002, 08:19 PM
#6
I believe there is a "special tool" (also called a bolt or something similar) which is used to hole the steering wheel centered during an alignment. If the alingment was slightly off or if the steering wheel was off centered that could produce what you descirbe, also big fat tires tend to be sensitive to pavement irregularities (crowns, grooves, wear ruts, etc).
07-08-2002, 08:20 PM
#7
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"I noticed that after my alignment I need to turn the wheel about 10 degrees to the right of center to keep the car going straight on most roads."
Does the car pull to the left? Like if you let go of the wheel, it pulls left by itself? This is a typical alignment 'trick' a lot of shops do. They set left caster to be less than right so that the car pulls intentionally to the left. This is supposedly to combat the crown on the road. BUT... not all roads are the same with the same slope. And when I'm blazing down a deserted desert road at 100mph+ at 3am, I'm in the middle of the road anyway, so it's really annoying having the car pull to the left.
Whenever I get an alignment, I always emphasize "do not set the front with uneven caster" and will re-iterate several times, "if the front caster isn't within 0.05 degrees from each other, I will come back and make you fix it"!
"I think that the alignment shop did the best they could using the splines on the steering wheel. I'm thinking that the next step is to get the wheel perfectly centered using the tie rod ends (while back on the alignment rack).
I don't think there a spring or anything in the rack that re-centers itself. However, you shouldn't use the tie-rod ends to center the steering wheel because you'll have different amounts of center-to-lock amounts between left & right sides. The proper way to center everything is to insert the centering tool/bolt into the steering rack to lock it at dead-center. Then insert the rack into the steering column with the steering-wheel perfectly centered as well. Then set alignment.
Does the car pull to the left? Like if you let go of the wheel, it pulls left by itself? This is a typical alignment 'trick' a lot of shops do. They set left caster to be less than right so that the car pulls intentionally to the left. This is supposedly to combat the crown on the road. BUT... not all roads are the same with the same slope. And when I'm blazing down a deserted desert road at 100mph+ at 3am, I'm in the middle of the road anyway, so it's really annoying having the car pull to the left.
Whenever I get an alignment, I always emphasize "do not set the front with uneven caster" and will re-iterate several times, "if the front caster isn't within 0.05 degrees from each other, I will come back and make you fix it"!
"I think that the alignment shop did the best they could using the splines on the steering wheel. I'm thinking that the next step is to get the wheel perfectly centered using the tie rod ends (while back on the alignment rack).
I don't think there a spring or anything in the rack that re-centers itself. However, you shouldn't use the tie-rod ends to center the steering wheel because you'll have different amounts of center-to-lock amounts between left & right sides. The proper way to center everything is to insert the centering tool/bolt into the steering rack to lock it at dead-center. Then insert the rack into the steering column with the steering-wheel perfectly centered as well. Then set alignment.
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07-08-2002, 09:25 PM
#8
[quote]Originally posted by tt9714:
<strong>I recently rebuilt the front suspension on my car including new A-arm ball joints and new tie rods. I also ordered a rebuilt PS rack that I installed. I'm running 16" Fuchs wheels.
After driving the car for about 1,000 miles since the rebuild, my overall impression of the steering is somewhat disappointing. Specifically, there seems to be more resistance to movement when turning the steering wheel than before the rebuild. This is most noticeable at low speeds (i.e. <40 MPH). My arms get a workout everytime I try to park the car. Also, my "turn-in" feels vague. It seems like I need to put a lot more steering input into the car to get it to hit the apex of a turn.
For comparison, I would describe the Boxster's steering as "light" and "quick" while my 944 is "heavy" and "slow." I did have a 4 wheel alignment to "factory specs" just after the rebuild.
Is it possible that my PS pump is going out? How can I tell if the pump is going bad? Any other thoughts on what might be going on with the car or does this behavior sound normal with the new suspension components?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What you are describing sounds like a bad alignment. My 951 has very light steering, and dead center travel. No appriciable drift left or right when hands off.
It wasnt cheap either, the shop charged me $175 for the alignment, but what a difference. I lost a power steering belt a few weeks ago, and barely noticed until I got into a parking lot.
It also helps, I have found, to keep a close eye on tire pressures. I run 31lbs cold, which works out to about 35lbs warmed up. Really hard driving I start with 28lbs cold and it goes up to about 34-36lbs when hot.
I have gotten to the point that I can tell if a tire is off by more than 2-3lbs, just by the pull to the side.
Another benifit is decreased tire wear.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
<strong>I recently rebuilt the front suspension on my car including new A-arm ball joints and new tie rods. I also ordered a rebuilt PS rack that I installed. I'm running 16" Fuchs wheels.
After driving the car for about 1,000 miles since the rebuild, my overall impression of the steering is somewhat disappointing. Specifically, there seems to be more resistance to movement when turning the steering wheel than before the rebuild. This is most noticeable at low speeds (i.e. <40 MPH). My arms get a workout everytime I try to park the car. Also, my "turn-in" feels vague. It seems like I need to put a lot more steering input into the car to get it to hit the apex of a turn.
For comparison, I would describe the Boxster's steering as "light" and "quick" while my 944 is "heavy" and "slow." I did have a 4 wheel alignment to "factory specs" just after the rebuild.
Is it possible that my PS pump is going out? How can I tell if the pump is going bad? Any other thoughts on what might be going on with the car or does this behavior sound normal with the new suspension components?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What you are describing sounds like a bad alignment. My 951 has very light steering, and dead center travel. No appriciable drift left or right when hands off.
It wasnt cheap either, the shop charged me $175 for the alignment, but what a difference. I lost a power steering belt a few weeks ago, and barely noticed until I got into a parking lot.
It also helps, I have found, to keep a close eye on tire pressures. I run 31lbs cold, which works out to about 35lbs warmed up. Really hard driving I start with 28lbs cold and it goes up to about 34-36lbs when hot.
I have gotten to the point that I can tell if a tire is off by more than 2-3lbs, just by the pull to the side.
Another benifit is decreased tire wear.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
07-08-2002, 10:43 PM
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My 924 has heavy steering, meaning it's hard to control the steering wheel because the car so low to the ground. The car itself has incredible handling, it can eat a turn if I'm hitting it at 40mph. You get used to it, it's no big deal for me.
07-08-2002, 11:19 PM
#10
[quote]Originally posted by amaf:
<strong>My 924 has heavy steering, meaning it's hard to control the steering wheel because the car so low to the ground. </strong><hr></blockquote>
AMAF this makes absolutely no sense to me
<strong>My 924 has heavy steering, meaning it's hard to control the steering wheel because the car so low to the ground. </strong><hr></blockquote>
AMAF this makes absolutely no sense to me
07-09-2002, 07:14 AM
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From the original 944 1986 sales brochure:
".The 944's power-assisted steering
The Porsche 944's progressive power-assisted steering system makes parking effortless and conserves the driver's strength while negotiating curves and winding routes. The power assist has purposely been applied with more restraint than is common with many other power steering concepts. The 944 driver thus is provided with full sensitivity for everything that occurs between the road and the 944's tires. The result is that limiting characteristics of the vehicle and slippery-surface performance are transmitted fully and accurately to the driver.
Automactcally adjusting power assisted steering: a closer look
Full power steering assistance is available when maximum torsional forces are present at the front wheels. The amount of steering wheel pressure necessary to steer when driving slowly or when parking is limited to a comfortable level. As engine rpm's increase, the steering oil pump ensures that the power assist is reduced slightly. When driving through fast corners it again automatically adjusts itself to the torsional forces. This level of power assistance sophistication gives comfortable steering while ensuring exact feedback to the driver regarding road conditions and the response of the 944 to the driver's inputs.
When driving straight ahead with lower torsional forces, the Porsche 944's power system works just like its mechanical equivalent -- the precise steering characterisitics help assure a trouble-free straight line stability and an optimum feel for the center point: the awareness of the steering wheel's center position."
It sounds like driving in a parking lot shouldn't be a workout, but may be a little more firm that say, your boxster.
".The 944's power-assisted steering
The Porsche 944's progressive power-assisted steering system makes parking effortless and conserves the driver's strength while negotiating curves and winding routes. The power assist has purposely been applied with more restraint than is common with many other power steering concepts. The 944 driver thus is provided with full sensitivity for everything that occurs between the road and the 944's tires. The result is that limiting characteristics of the vehicle and slippery-surface performance are transmitted fully and accurately to the driver.
Automactcally adjusting power assisted steering: a closer look
Full power steering assistance is available when maximum torsional forces are present at the front wheels. The amount of steering wheel pressure necessary to steer when driving slowly or when parking is limited to a comfortable level. As engine rpm's increase, the steering oil pump ensures that the power assist is reduced slightly. When driving through fast corners it again automatically adjusts itself to the torsional forces. This level of power assistance sophistication gives comfortable steering while ensuring exact feedback to the driver regarding road conditions and the response of the 944 to the driver's inputs.
When driving straight ahead with lower torsional forces, the Porsche 944's power system works just like its mechanical equivalent -- the precise steering characterisitics help assure a trouble-free straight line stability and an optimum feel for the center point: the awareness of the steering wheel's center position."
It sounds like driving in a parking lot shouldn't be a workout, but may be a little more firm that say, your boxster.
