Notices
924/931/944/951/968 Forum Porsche 924, 924S, 931, 944, 944S, 944S2, 951, and 968 discussion, how-to guides, and technical help. (1976-1995)
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Clutch Job -- Can't get at a bolt

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-17-2009 | 05:55 PM
  #16  
944Ross's Avatar
944Ross
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 7
From: NM (ABQ)
Default

GOT IT! Wasn't easy, but these are the things that ultimately worked:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...ord=socket+cap

Only $11 a set, too!

For breaking it loose (it was galled) I used one of those in a 1/2" drive 19mm 6--pt socket, put an offset box 11/16" on the "socket cap", and a cheater on the box wrench. Instant results! Once it was broken free, the short-U-joint socket was a godsend. The short-U-Joint socket also made the bolt on the very top a breeze from below (after breaking it loose from above).

So the bellhousing is loose, and it WON''T COME OFF!! The tab where the stuck bolt was is hitting the tunnel/brake lines...It appears I do need to lower the back of the engine ... sigh...

So, in Clark's it doesn't say anything specific, but I understood it to say that you could move the TT w-a-a-y-y back. My rear bellhousing is hitting the crossmember right above the diff, no matter how I turn it. Is it supposed to clear?

Is there anything inside the front bellhousing that could be hanging up? I got the release lever out already. The hangup is up on the top or high up at least. I've undone all the conveniently placed grounds, cable clamps, etc. I'm wondering if the release bearing tube and the remains of my rubber clutch are wedged in there?
Attached Images  
Old 05-17-2009 | 06:55 PM
  #17  
944Ross's Avatar
944Ross
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 7
From: NM (ABQ)
Default

Well, it was the damn heater hose again, wedging in between the bell and the firewall. Still no joy tho, it's so-o-o close. Are you supposed to remove the speed & reference sensor bracket?? Clark's just says "sensors", but the bell appears to be hanging up right around there...
Old 05-17-2009 | 07:05 PM
  #18  
KuHL 951's Avatar
KuHL 951
Hey Man
Rennlist Member

 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,525
Likes: 188
From: Nor Cal, Seal Rock, OR
Default

Welcome to 944 clutch Hell. The TT will only travel back just far enough for the BH to clear the TT shaft. I had the same issue with the BH and had to rotate it CW from the rear it to a sweet spot for it to come off; I have no idea why. I assume you are clear of any BH guide pins? Sounds like you are hitting the sensor guide tube that's attached to the sensor bracket and extends into the BH for one of the sensors. The early cars had a separate tube for one of the sensors. Have you completely removed the sensor bracket? I'm sorry for your pain, BTDT Once you are done you will qualify for a new profession of grooming badgers as all disregard for health and safety are thrown out the window.
Old 05-17-2009 | 07:25 PM
  #19  
944Ross's Avatar
944Ross
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 7
From: NM (ABQ)
Default

I have not removed the sensor bracket at all...sounds like I need to. @#$%^&*!! I didn't want to have to re-set the depth on them, getting to the bracket bolts is a nightmare from above. Maybe from below it is "possible".

I swear, next time I do this, I'm pulling the engine. And did I mention, I've got another 944 that will need a clutch?!
Old 05-17-2009 | 08:01 PM
  #20  
KuHL 951's Avatar
KuHL 951
Hey Man
Rennlist Member

 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,525
Likes: 188
From: Nor Cal, Seal Rock, OR
Default

Originally Posted by 944Ross
I have not removed the sensor bracket at all...sounds like I need to. @#$%^&*!! I didn't want to have to re-set the depth on them, getting to the bracket bolts is a nightmare from above. Maybe from below it is "possible".

I swear, next time I do this, I'm pulling the engine. And did I mention, I've got another 944 that will need a clutch?!
The good news is your second clutch job will only take half the time and half the beer. Sorry, but the first one is just one of those 'rites of passage' things. Also, setting the ref. sensor gap on the car is a snap; you only set the ref. sensor; the speed sensor always works. I can confirm that the sensor bracket bolts comes off from the top; not easily but easier than from the bottom.
Old 05-17-2009 | 08:14 PM
  #21  
944Ross's Avatar
944Ross
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 7
From: NM (ABQ)
Default

LOL... losing my clutch virginity, eh?! I have to admit I feel violated

I can physically see the bolts for the sensor bracket, but they are socket-head (allen) bolts and I expect problems getting a key in them. I just talked to my son, who has an LS1/951. When he was pulling the old engine, he just broke off the bracket -- I wish I had that luxury!

Bagging it for today, I've got fiberglass insulation all over my arms from the tunnel. Itches like hell!

Thanks for all the help and encouragement!
Old 05-17-2009 | 08:23 PM
  #22  
KuHL 951's Avatar
KuHL 951
Hey Man
Rennlist Member

 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,525
Likes: 188
From: Nor Cal, Seal Rock, OR
Default

Originally Posted by 944Ross
LOL... losing my clutch virginity, eh?! I have to admit I feel violated

I can physically see the bolts for the sensor bracket, but they are socket-head (allen) bolts and I expect problems getting a key in them. I just talked to my son, who has an LS1/951. When he was pulling the old engine, he just broke off the bracket -- I wish I had that luxury!

Bagging it for today, I've got fiberglass insulation all over my arms from the tunnel. Itches like hell!

Thanks for all the help and encouragement!
If you grind down the short leg of an allen wrench you have plenty of room to slip a short section of pipe over the long end and break it loose. Once it pops the bolts come off easily. If you have a son with a 951 I have nothing but respect for you and can appreciate your efforts. I feel like I'm the fleet manager of a sinking Navy as I'm the only real mechanic in the family and I'm mediocre at best.
Old 05-17-2009 | 08:54 PM
  #23  
Mike C.'s Avatar
Mike C.
Drifting
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,224
Likes: 1
From: Eastern CT
Default

These are the usual trials and tribulations of a 944 clutch job. I did jack up the front of the engine a bit and just let it rotate on the motor mounts. Lowering the cross member a ahlf inch or so helps too. Even then it can take some very patient jiggling to get the bellhousing to drop down. The sensors are a B-#$%@! with the heater valve right there. I recommend notching the bellhousing so next time the sensors can stay put. It was easy to do with a hacksaw and file. A search should bring up the thread.
Old 05-17-2009 | 08:56 PM
  #24  
Mighty Shilling's Avatar
Mighty Shilling
Wax On, Wax Off
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 17,727
Likes: 4
From: 5280 ft above the sea
Default

Originally Posted by 944Ross
So the bellhousing is loose, and it WON''T COME OFF!! The tab where the stuck bolt was is hitting the tunnel/brake lines...It appears I do need to lower the back of the engine ... sigh...

So, in Clark's it doesn't say anything specific, but I understood it to say that you could move the TT w-a-a-y-y back. My rear bellhousing is hitting the crossmember right above the diff, no matter how I turn it. Is it supposed to clear?

Is there anything inside the front bellhousing that could be hanging up? I got the release lever out already. The hangup is up on the top or high up at least. I've undone all the conveniently placed grounds, cable clamps, etc. I'm wondering if the release bearing tube and the remains of my rubber clutch are wedged in there?
first off, I find it helps to remove the transmission crossmember. 2 bolts and it's free. makes clearance MUCH easier and you can slide the tt back about another foot.

Second, one issue I had with the speed/ref sensor bracket, the hole where the speed sensor CLOSEST to the front of the car, it had a tube in it that ran the length. Put a pick or something down in there and see if you can't extract it. should pull straight up. after that the bell housing *should* be free...
Old 05-17-2009 | 09:16 PM
  #25  
944Ross's Avatar
944Ross
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 7
From: NM (ABQ)
Default

Originally Posted by Porschephile 924
first off, I find it helps to remove the transmission crossmember. 2 bolts and it's free. makes clearance MUCH easier and you can slide the tt back about another foot.

Second, one issue I had with the speed/ref sensor bracket, the hole where the speed sensor CLOSEST to the front of the car, it had a tube in it that ran the length. Put a pick or something down in there and see if you can't extract it. should pull straight up. after that the bell housing *should* be free...
My car doesn't have a removeable transmission crossmember; the part my rear bell hits is part of the unibody. I'd have to drop the torsion bar tube to get the bell to clear it.

I can see down the front hole of the bracket; it's clear of the bell. I think the rear part of the bracket is hung up on the bell's flange.

Mike, I'll look for that thread, sounds like a good idea! I'll also replace the allen bolts on the bracket with regular old hex-heads.
Old 05-17-2009 | 10:13 PM
  #26  
Mighty Shilling's Avatar
Mighty Shilling
Wax On, Wax Off
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 17,727
Likes: 4
From: 5280 ft above the sea
Default

Ross, sounds like our cars are different, so I'll ask if this pertains to your car... do you have the 4 little "hooks" protruding off the TT, and the 2 on the torsion bar tube? if so, did you rotate the tt 180 degress so the hooks would clear the torsion bar tube hooks?

I'll assume that you have if your car is so equipped. Good luck!

BTW, I'd swear that hans and franz, when designing this car held up a clutch, and said "build a car around this..." Jerks...
Old 05-17-2009 | 10:26 PM
  #27  
944Ross's Avatar
944Ross
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 7
From: NM (ABQ)
Default

I saw in Clark's a reference to TT "triangles" that you need to rotate the TT to clear the torsion bar tube; no such thing I can see. There is a clamped-on plate on the rear section of the TT with a single tab sticking down; it appears to be designed to prevent forward motion of the TT/transxle in a crash? It would catch the torsion bar tube if anything moved about 2" forward.

What do the hooks do on yours? Do they mount the TT to the torsion bar tube?
Old 05-17-2009 | 10:53 PM
  #28  
Van's Avatar
Van
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,008
Likes: 95
From: Hyde Park, NY
Default

Originally Posted by 944Ross
I saw in Clark's a reference to TT "triangles" that you need to rotate the TT to clear the torsion bar tube; no such thing I can see. There is a clamped-on plate on the rear section of the TT with a single tab sticking down; it appears to be designed to prevent forward motion of the TT/transxle in a crash? It would catch the torsion bar tube if anything moved about 2" forward.

What do the hooks do on yours? Do they mount the TT to the torsion bar tube?
The early 944s have a different system, as you found out. The point of the "triangle hooks" is a crash safety device - as best as I can tell, to prevent the engine from winding up in your lap in a hard frontal collision.



Quick Reply: Clutch Job -- Can't get at a bolt



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 01:10 AM.