TurboTim

Before the flamers really start to light my *** up......

I think people should know that we shipped out just the dry block! Not a complete short block or a long block, just an empty block. We did not build the motor for Eurospeed. Chris and his father wanted to build it themselves so we just had the block machined and sleeved and ordered some JE pistons.The only thing that was shipped in the box was a dry block that weighs about 50-60 lbs.It was not a fully assembled motor. It is well under the limitations of UPS and does not require the use of a freighting company. If anyone has ever dealt with a freighting company, you know that it is very expensive to ship a motor and it takes along time. That last complete motor we shipped was $280 bucks via Roadway! $50-75 bucks for UPS seemed like a viable option since we have shipped and have been shipped dry blocks this way before. Now I will admit that we might have been able to pack it up a little better(even though it did meet the UPS guidelines). The packing that Chris sent the block in was long gone since our move to the new shop. Besides that, we had successfully shipped numerous dry blocks out with no damage. Afterall, most of the drivers from UPS get paid good money (in excess of $25 an hour) so they should do their job responsibly.

I know people on this board will take it on themselves to nit pick myself and SFR so...... go for it;^) Many have already decided to talk about my incompetentancy, etc.....Besides this little mishap, what else do you have on me because I would surely like to here it!!!!!!!!!!What is it because a persons turbo or part they ordered was late????? Is that all you got? LOL! C'mon get serious when you make accusations like that and back it up with facts. I have gotten into no dumbass antics and if you feel that I have..... publicly display your proof to this board. Let myself and everyone hear exactly what a dumb-*** antic entails!!!!! C'mon, lets hear it!!!!! I know that the only thing SFR has been guilty of is some delays in shipments. Thats it! If that qaulifies as a dumbass antic then you have got me by the ba*ls.


I have talked to Chris already and the damage does not appear to be as bad as some of you might believe so take your chill pills:^) In then end though, Chris will be taken care of and that is what counts.

Tabor

[quote]Originally posted by TurboTim:
<strong>In then end though, Chris will be taken care of and that is what counts.</strong><hr></blockquote>

This is very true. If Chris is taken care of in a timely fashion, I would still deal with SFR. But if not...

Edit- there weren't any studs in the "dry block" were there? I can't imagine shipping a block with stutds in it in this manner.

TurboTim

Tabor,


There were no head studs in the block but the mains were there.I just got off the phone with Chris's dad and although there were a few nicks, the block is still perfect and they are going to move on to assembling the motor.

MadMax

You can say what you want Tim but look man, if your going to use this BBS as your personal advertising board then you have to take the heat if something goes wrong. You wrote almost 7 full lines of explaination before you would admit partial responsibility. [quote] Now I will admit that we might have been able to pack it up a little better(even though it did meet the UPS guidelines). The packing that Chris sent the block in was long gone since our move to the new shop. Besides that, we had successfully shipped numerous dry blocks out with no damage. <hr></blockquote>
Even if Chris' block turns out not to be damaged that is no way to pack even a dry block. I don't care if you didn't have problems with it in the past. Heavy metal items and packing peanuts? C'mon man.

As far as incompetence goes...I apologize. That was not a fair statement. I wanted to apologize as loudly as I ridiculed. However, you have made some fairly outlandish claims with the supercharger and promised parts have been late. I realize that parts suppliers can hamstring you as well as anybody else but in the past there have been numerous stories on this BBS of excuses and a lack of complete honesty regarding delivery time. The supercharger, claiming 100 extra rwhp with reliability? Anybody that believes that you can boost an engine that already has an 11:1 compression ratio with 5 psi of boost and NOT have accelerated wear that will eventually effect reliability is nuts. You've also said that you got rid of the A/C with the supercharger because an engine running boost with the a/c on all day wouldn't last too long, or something to that affect.

I am impressed with the things you have accomplished but when you have posted on this BBS, and that's all most of us have to go on, it has frequently been flame wars between you and Huntley with both of you blowing sunshine about your respective products.

Also, I think it admirable that you stand behind your products, it just "appears" (emphasis on the word appears) that there are frequent errors or problems that have to "be made right". That as you said "is all that matters". Once or twice...then you are correct. However, if the errors are frequent then the errors themselves become the MOST important. If you don't think missing deadlines is important then I guess I do have you "by the b*alls". If you can't deliver when you say then don't promise it. Failure to deliver what and when you promise something is incompetence. That is all I was trying to say. I shouldn't have made personally skewed comments and for that I do apologize.

Regards,
Max

*eurospeed951*

You know one of the reasons that I like this board so much is that I can share with other Porsche people some of the expeariences I have and how they make me feel. One of the reasons I haven't posted as much as i use to is because many times what I share gets twisted. As I said before I don't want any blame put on anyone! I thought I made that clear in my second post! My only reason for telling you all about my block is that I had promised to keep you all updated. Yes, I am unhappy about the way this rebuild has gone, but I am not unhappy with Tim at SFR. He has not done anything wrong. When I started this project I was dealing with John. I had never even spoken to Tim before. Then on day I see a post that says that John has left SFR. Tim called me that day to let me know what was going on eventhough he didn't know me. I have not heard a single word from John. Since then Tim has been great to work with. Also I thought you all knew that the delays were caused by JE and not by SFR. Everything that I have orderd from SFR has arrived on time.

The damage to my block as Tim said is not that bad. The only reason I was so upset was that I had been waiting for so long, because of JE, and this was just one more thing added on.

I am no longer upset about this so I think we should all drop this. The only thing that would make this any better is if the Porsche fairy would clean my garage, build my engine, and leave behind a Tec3, Turbo, Injectors,............

garrity928

I saw the post concerning the broken engine blocks. The package that I shipped was well packaged, without a doubt. It weighed in at a whopping 80ish odd pounds. It was not a complete engine. I have shipped them in this manner for years because it is often most cost effective for the consumer. This was the first such problem. Perry examined the box carefully and it was packaged very nicely. Do you know that even the almighty Porsche ships via UPS on cranks and bare blocks? I know that they must use a magic packaging material for them to survive! Certainly I feel bad about Perry's block being damaged, but all I can do is box it up carefully. No one is willing to pay about $250 to ship an engine block via truck freight after crating for a 80 pound parcel. I also would like you to know that I have had more engines broken on pallets than by couriers like UPS and FedEx. All I can do is provide good machine work and good packaging. My engine had to be dropped off the tailgate of the truck. I once ordered a $1500 rifle scope that actually had tire marks on the package. It was very well packaged and do you think that it survived.... If you have an axe to grind with me or Tim, you have our emails so drop us a line. Otherwise all I have done is provided honest info for plenty of people that I never sold a $1 worth of product. Think before you strike out.

Thanks

Kool

I know that this is probably beating a dead horse. But I just wanted to add my $.02. Not too long ago I built a computer for my uncle in California. I bought all of the pieces from various web sites had them sent to my house assembled everything and sent it out. I sent the case with motherboard and memory and all the various components out in the same case that I received it in. Meaning the case that it was shipped to me in. A box twice the size of of the case with the huge styrofoam blocks molded to fill the void between the case and the walls of the box. I even took it to Mailboxes Etc. and was assured that it was wonderfully packed and that there wouldn't have any problem. So it was sent. About a week later I get a call from my uncle he tells me that the computer came in the box beat to hell with a huge hole in the side. Like the box was thrown off of something and landed on a spear or something. If landed so hard that it dented the case and fried the motherboard.

Well, guess what UPS and MBE refused the claim. It wasn't until my Uncle had a lawyer friend draft a letter that UPS would even discuss payment. I think he ended up getting paid for the parts and labor for what had happened. I think that it is a joke.

My Father used to ship stuff all over the world sometimes using UPS he told me that it has been his experience that they always deny claims first because they save money due to people not deaming it worth their time to fight for their money.

I work for a supplier to BMW here in SC. I am constantly sending items back and forth to Germany. I try my hardest not to use UPS. They have not proven to me that they are a compitent carrier and for my dollar the increased level of service and quality shipping provided by companies such as FedEx is well worth the added expense. These types of practices will catch up with the companies that use them our free market will take care of that. It just sucks for the people who get jipped in the mean time. Sorry for the rant.

Mark

86 951 APE stag II's Koni Yellows

MadMax

Garrity,
I apologize. However I still don't think it is a good idea to pack a engine in a unreinforced cardboard box. Even wrapping an engine in foam and bubble wrap doesn't get the job done. If UPS would not have abused the package then MAYBE it would have been okay. But when dealing with such specialized parts and time lines a little more care should be taken to ensure that the package will survive some abuse by the idiots at UPS. Your statement about Porsche shipping dry blocks and cranks via UPS, fine. The block you sent had studs mounted in it...did you really think that bubble wrap and some foam would stop them? I've always heard such great things about your engine building ability...you couldn't believe that bubble wrap and foam would fully protect that block. You couldn't be that stupid and still do such great engine work, could you?

Until these two events I had never heard of anybody shipping an engine in a cardboad box like it was cookies or grandma's apple pie.

Just my opinion, if you don't like it that's fine but spare me the email challenges etc...

Regards,
Max

Deepice

When ever I build a new bike for me or a customer we order the engine from a high end shop like <a href="http://www.patrick-racing.com" target="_blank">http://www.patrick-racing.com</a>

The motors are anywhere from $7,000-$15,000 with a 6-14 week leadtime.

They always ship me the blocks or motors, heads or trannys is Plastic containers. They have handles and molded feet. I don't have any here now but I am almost shure they get the containers from

<a href="http://www.scribnerplastics.com" target="_blank">http://www.scribnerplastics.com</a>

I was told they spend about $80 for the contaiers

and they never ship UPS. Now I don't know about you but if I cut a $15,000 check for a motorcycle engine and had to wait 14 weeks for it only to tell the customer it was damaged in shipping I would be dead.

Luke

[quote]Originally posted by icat:
<strong>

I would prefer everyone left God's name out of our discussions - I don't believe he had anything to do with this issue.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

I dont beleive he had anything to do with anything, why should anybody else care what I beleive

I personally like the profanity on rennlist BECAUSE people cannot use facial expressions to show frustration/anger/dissapointment. BUT i agree that in public, profanity is not neccessary.

TIM,


My turbo was packaged very nicely! thank you. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> [quote]Originally posted by TurboTim:
<strong>What is it because a persons turbo or part they ordered was late????? Is that all you got? LOL</strong><hr></blockquote>

951and944S

Euro
Sorry to hear there was any damage, however slight it was. You had plenty time waiting to have a vision of what the block should have looked like, and I'm glad for you that it's not serious.

While Tim's being blasted for this "One off" shipping error, if it can even be proved that it was his fault, he has admitted that he could have done better in packaging with hindsight.
Sounds like from Eurospeed's vantage point, Tim took initiative to call him and see the job through after John obviously left both of them high and dry.

I personally have had a minimum of 10 packages sent from Santee to New Orleans (long haul) and have never recieved anything from SFR that was packaged improperly or damaged upon arrival.

Just my $.02

TurboTim

Hey guys, I dont want to leave people with a bad taste in their mouths and no I dont think this is my personal advertising board even though I am a member and sponser of Rennlist(check the sponser board). However, I was a little upset to see myself, Garrity and whoeever else was mentioned, to be on the verge of getting lynched by a bunch of list members because of a mistake(wheather it was because of UPS or us). Mistakes happen. The thing that really ticked me off was the fact that there was nothing major that happened to Chris block. In fact he did not know the full extent of the damage and was just giving everyone an update. I think he handled himself in a respecatable manner and in not way did I feel as though he was trying to point the finger. Unfortunately, his words were miscontrued by alot of people on this list and then these same people were ready to attack, boycott, persecute and any other unmerciful things they could conjer up;^) LOL. I felt like Frankenstein. So anyways, I feel better and Chris feels beter. Hopefully Garrity and Perry feel better and maybe everyone else feels better too. Since I feel so much better..... SFR will be giving out free turbos to everyone! Just kidding. take care.

garrity928

Thanks for the imput Max. I guess that by empirical evidence you may be right about my shipping techniques. The block was damaged. My point is it was well package to handle average UPS abuse with no problems. When the box was dropped (or thrown) from several feet, it would have broke in a crake as well. A plastic conatiner with pressureized foam insulation would have worked great but no one would have paid the $300 or $400 in shipping plus conatainer for an engine block. It is an issue of cost as well. Unfortunately this time it went bad due to careless handlers.

Thanks,

Garrity

icat

Why not enclose the items in reusable shipping containers that are returned to the sender once delivered? We do this in the computer industry with fabricated boxes with dense foam inserts. Once the product arrives safely the customer sends the empty box back. The customer pays a "deposit" on the box which is refunded when the box is returned.

Perry 951

As I said on my other post, this is definately UPS's fault in my situation. That baby was packed in there with several layers of dense foam, a lot of bubble wrap, and a box rated for 200lbs. When the UPS rep left my home, he was pretty sure that they were at fault, but needed to speak with his super on it. Garrity had UPS inspect, and wrap it. If it was not packaged to their specifications, they would not ship it. Sure, a crate would have been ideal, but there was no reason for the damage to mine except for a few guys bowling it in the parking lot.

I will say this to the suppliers who represent on this list. I have delt with almost every one of you over the last 2 years of this sick story I live. All of you at one point bent over backwards to get my buisness, and to help with my qustions. And again, all of you have had problems in one way or another. Tim has waited on a reducer for my turbo for a month or more. Garrity dissapeared for a few months. Some parts from Granny were damaged. Jason has had an order for many months, and has not completed it yet. Vertex has been Vertex. PAP never sent a part I paid for. Huntley was 7 months late in paying back a core charge. Need I go on?

The point being this. I am happy with the parts I have recieved from every one of them (except Vertex.) All of them have tried hard to make good on the situation. Expect delays and problems. This way you are prepared when they happen, and delighted when they don't.

Hang with em'.

Garrity, nice to see you back on the boards. Although you are hanging up the gloves, it would be nice to hear your knowledge back on this forum. It is missed.