Can someone explain setting camber for me ?
02-28-2009, 11:35 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Can someone explain setting camber for me ?
When I replace my front struts according to clarks garage you have to mark the lower bolt that sets the camber. Can someone please explain this procedure a little better to me ?
02-28-2009, 11:39 AM
#2
Instructor
The lower bolts are eccentric bolts, that is, as you twist them, they change where they clamp the spindle. This changes the angle that the tires sit on the ground from a view from the front of the car.
\---/ positive camber - generally bad
/---\ negative camber - good - too a point
\---/ positive camber - generally bad
/---\ negative camber - good - too a point
03-01-2009, 03:42 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Take a paint pen or nail polish and mark a line on the bolt head and spindle, so that mark shows a line specifying the orientation of the bolt. This will allow you to realign it in the same position when you put it back together.
03-01-2009, 04:11 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
The bottom most bolt is just a bolt. The second to the bottom bolt is the eccentric bolt.
Marking them is iffy, at best, if you're changing to new struts... If you were taking struts off and putting the same ones back on, it'll work somewhat.
Problem is, chances are the new parts will have variations from the old parts due to manufacturing tolerances. That's just a fact of life.
Do yourself a favor and get a fresh alignment.
Marking them is iffy, at best, if you're changing to new struts... If you were taking struts off and putting the same ones back on, it'll work somewhat.
Problem is, chances are the new parts will have variations from the old parts due to manufacturing tolerances. That's just a fact of life.
Do yourself a favor and get a fresh alignment.
03-02-2009, 12:29 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
The eccentric washer is actually what's doing the work (along with the eccentric head) - these both press against the folded metal lip of the strut.
If you are going to use the imprecise method of trying to mark everything and put it back exactly the way it was, you also have to get the eccentric washer back exactly the way it was... and, remember, this method is still a partial shot in the dark - don't expect too much.
If you are going to use the imprecise method of trying to mark everything and put it back exactly the way it was, you also have to get the eccentric washer back exactly the way it was... and, remember, this method is still a partial shot in the dark - don't expect too much.
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03-02-2009, 12:33 PM
#8
and you're also assuming that at the moment you scribed, everything WAS actually already aligned.
it's really easy to measure toe and camber. you just need a tape measure, some string, a plumbline, and a calculator. a DIY alignment isn't hard or in any way inaccurate. it just takes time. use of a laser level helps
it's really easy to measure toe and camber. you just need a tape measure, some string, a plumbline, and a calculator. a DIY alignment isn't hard or in any way inaccurate. it just takes time. use of a laser level helps
03-02-2009, 12:41 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
03-02-2009, 01:34 PM
#10
the alignment in a few words:
camber. drop a plumbline close to the wheel. measure the distance from top of the wheel lip to plumbline. measure distance from bottom of the wheel to plumbline. take the difference divided by the diameter of the wheel, inverse tangent that, and you have your camber angle. it's better to use a metric ruler since the units are more precise.
the quick and simple way i've done zero rear toe is to simply do line of sight. position yourself at the middle height of the rear tire and look forward at the front tire. it's important to do the middle of the tire because the tire deforms at ground level. at the very edge where the front of the rear tire and the back of the rear tire line up, you should be able to see the same front and back of the front tire. if your rear toe is OUT, then you won't be able to see the front tire at all. if your rear toe is IN, then you'll be looking at the tread of the front tire. if your rear toe is zero AND the your front is also zero, then you should be seeing the 4 edges of tire, front and rear of the rear tire, and front and rear of the front tire. it helps to mark the tires with white chalk or some other visible color. assuming your front toe isn't actually zero, you will have to turn the steering wheel so the front tire edges line up to the rear tire edges.
now front toe. same idea as rear toe, just looking from front instead of rear. turn the steering wheel until it's centered. position yourself in front of the front tire and look edgeward at the rear tire. adjust the tie rod until the u can see all 4 edges lined up. repeat the process on the other front tire. now you have zero toe in front.
the front toe is simple to do. but the rear toe is PITA cause unless you have magical hands or 4 wheel drive-on lift, you have to remove the wheel to get to the toe adjustment. which means jack up, remove wheel, adjustment, reinstall wheel, jack down, take measurement, repeat lather rinse until complete.
camber. drop a plumbline close to the wheel. measure the distance from top of the wheel lip to plumbline. measure distance from bottom of the wheel to plumbline. take the difference divided by the diameter of the wheel, inverse tangent that, and you have your camber angle. it's better to use a metric ruler since the units are more precise.
the quick and simple way i've done zero rear toe is to simply do line of sight. position yourself at the middle height of the rear tire and look forward at the front tire. it's important to do the middle of the tire because the tire deforms at ground level. at the very edge where the front of the rear tire and the back of the rear tire line up, you should be able to see the same front and back of the front tire. if your rear toe is OUT, then you won't be able to see the front tire at all. if your rear toe is IN, then you'll be looking at the tread of the front tire. if your rear toe is zero AND the your front is also zero, then you should be seeing the 4 edges of tire, front and rear of the rear tire, and front and rear of the front tire. it helps to mark the tires with white chalk or some other visible color. assuming your front toe isn't actually zero, you will have to turn the steering wheel so the front tire edges line up to the rear tire edges.
now front toe. same idea as rear toe, just looking from front instead of rear. turn the steering wheel until it's centered. position yourself in front of the front tire and look edgeward at the rear tire. adjust the tie rod until the u can see all 4 edges lined up. repeat the process on the other front tire. now you have zero toe in front.
the front toe is simple to do. but the rear toe is PITA cause unless you have magical hands or 4 wheel drive-on lift, you have to remove the wheel to get to the toe adjustment. which means jack up, remove wheel, adjustment, reinstall wheel, jack down, take measurement, repeat lather rinse until complete.
03-03-2009, 03:56 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thanks!
I'll probably pay the shops to do it for a while yet. I'll probably be starting back to school full time (nights) soon, but keeping my day job
.
saved the info for when I have more time than money (eg, when I'm retired
)
I'll probably pay the shops to do it for a while yet. I'll probably be starting back to school full time (nights) soon, but keeping my day job
. saved the info for when I have more time than money (eg, when I'm retired
)
03-03-2009, 04:19 PM
#12
Drifting
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the alignment in a few words:
camber. drop a plumbline close to the wheel. measure the distance from top of the wheel lip to plumbline. measure distance from bottom of the wheel to plumbline. take the difference divided by the diameter of the wheel, inverse tangent that, and you have your camber angle. it's better to use a metric ruler since the units are more precise.
the quick and simple way i've done zero rear toe is to simply do line of sight. position yourself at the middle height of the rear tire and look forward at the front tire. it's important to do the middle of the tire because the tire deforms at ground level. at the very edge where the front of the rear tire and the back of the rear tire line up, you should be able to see the same front and back of the front tire. if your rear toe is OUT, then you won't be able to see the front tire at all. if your rear toe is IN, then you'll be looking at the tread of the front tire. if your rear toe is zero AND the your front is also zero, then you should be seeing the 4 edges of tire, front and rear of the rear tire, and front and rear of the front tire. it helps to mark the tires with white chalk or some other visible color. assuming your front toe isn't actually zero, you will have to turn the steering wheel so the front tire edges line up to the rear tire edges.
now front toe. same idea as rear toe, just looking from front instead of rear. turn the steering wheel until it's centered. position yourself in front of the front tire and look edgeward at the rear tire. adjust the tie rod until the u can see all 4 edges lined up. repeat the process on the other front tire. now you have zero toe in front.
the front toe is simple to do. but the rear toe is PITA cause unless you have magical hands or 4 wheel drive-on lift, you have to remove the wheel to get to the toe adjustment. which means jack up, remove wheel, adjustment, reinstall wheel, jack down, take measurement, repeat lather rinse until complete.
camber. drop a plumbline close to the wheel. measure the distance from top of the wheel lip to plumbline. measure distance from bottom of the wheel to plumbline. take the difference divided by the diameter of the wheel, inverse tangent that, and you have your camber angle. it's better to use a metric ruler since the units are more precise.
the quick and simple way i've done zero rear toe is to simply do line of sight. position yourself at the middle height of the rear tire and look forward at the front tire. it's important to do the middle of the tire because the tire deforms at ground level. at the very edge where the front of the rear tire and the back of the rear tire line up, you should be able to see the same front and back of the front tire. if your rear toe is OUT, then you won't be able to see the front tire at all. if your rear toe is IN, then you'll be looking at the tread of the front tire. if your rear toe is zero AND the your front is also zero, then you should be seeing the 4 edges of tire, front and rear of the rear tire, and front and rear of the front tire. it helps to mark the tires with white chalk or some other visible color. assuming your front toe isn't actually zero, you will have to turn the steering wheel so the front tire edges line up to the rear tire edges.
now front toe. same idea as rear toe, just looking from front instead of rear. turn the steering wheel until it's centered. position yourself in front of the front tire and look edgeward at the rear tire. adjust the tie rod until the u can see all 4 edges lined up. repeat the process on the other front tire. now you have zero toe in front.
the front toe is simple to do. but the rear toe is PITA cause unless you have magical hands or 4 wheel drive-on lift, you have to remove the wheel to get to the toe adjustment. which means jack up, remove wheel, adjustment, reinstall wheel, jack down, take measurement, repeat lather rinse until complete.
The plumb line camber trick assumes that you have a level floor (which you may have). It's actually easier (IMHO) to use a carpenter's square held against the wheel, and measure the gap between the top lip of the wheel and the vertical, and the bottom lip of the wheel and the vertical, and use the wheel diameter (between the two points) to calculate the angle. It's trigonometry.
In the end, it won't be perfect, but good enough to get you on the road. I did camber plates and used the carpenter's square method targeting -3 degrees. A few months later, I had it professionally aligned and found out that I was at -2.8 and -3.0. Pretty close. I'm now at -2.7 on both sides.
Eccentric bolts don't have a lot of subtlety, and I think you need to yank the wheel to move it(?). It'll probably be much harder to set that with camber plates.
