Battery Cable Upgrade Project
12-30-2002, 08:01 PM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Battery Cable Upgrade Project
Well, I have the entire battery cable project completed and installed on my car.
I don't have all the price quotes in yet, but can guess the final sales price for the 3 components, will be over $100, easy. I'm not so sure that people want to go ahead with such an expensive proposition. I know you folks could never duplicate on your own for what I would charge if you work for over 25 cents an hour, but still, it is expensive and I am throwing things out for comments.
I guess I should start out by saying that this kit is ment to replace aging Porsche wiring, not provide some magic cure to all that ails. I have done extensive paper calculations and real world testing. Some guys wanted me to use 1/0 or 2/0 cable on some runs. OK, that is huge and fat, weighs a lot, hard to run on install, and will save .05 volts at a full load at 115 amps. Guess what, your alternator will drop a couple volts in output at that load, so I don't think saving 0.05 volts when your alt just crapped 2.00 volts is what you want to spend you efforts at. You want to look at what happens at 60 amps. I'm going to stick with #1 AWG, which is heavier than stock and will have some good terminals on the ends.
I can go on more about this, but the bottom line is replace the sub-par wiring and try and get back above square one, not to the moon.
All the versions would come with supplemental items like the firewall stud cable ties (the ones Porsche charges $1.80 a copy for), a little drilled sanding sponge for cleaning up contact points (works very slick in tight places), a tube of dielectric grease, grommets etc. You supply tools.
There are 3 sub-members in the kit. All runs have tinned terminal ends that are crimped, soldered and sealed in silicone and glue lined heat shrink.
Negative Ground
o new military battery terminal clamp
o short run of #1 cable to body
o long run of #1 cable to engine block.
Positive to Starter and on to Alternator
o new military battery terminal clamp
o run to starter is #1 cable with fiberglass heat and abrasion sleeve
o run from starter to alternator is #4 cable with fiberglass heat and abrasion sleeve and a LittelFuse inline 175 amp fuse at starter end to prevent battery current inrush from adding 600+ amps to any potential short situation
Supplemental Positive Feed to Fuse/relay Board
o Seperately terminaled inline LittelFuse at 150 amps (or higher if you so choose) as the primary feed off battery to connect all the positive spaghetti to, outside of the single battery/starter run. With the seperate terminal ends on the fuse, you just unscrew it to replace.
o And if the above blown fuse was a fluke of some sort, an extra bolt will be enclosed so you can direct wire, watch and smell for smoke and glowing, molten wires, and get on your way if none of that is happening.
o #4 gauge sister wire to the fuse board. Covered in fiberglass sleeve. This will help people that have not rewired forward lights, a lot.
Well that is the basic outline and many of you know how I approach jobs and the quality I produce.
To start the discussion off, the 150 amp positive fuse off the battery post will probably not protect the several little gauge wires as they will melt apart at 150 amps current in a short. But it will blow if a short involves several or the supplemental #4 gauge. Your big risk on this package of wires is that you crash, pinch them and hard short out and start on fire while you are trapped in the car or unconscious. This fuse will blow in under a tenth of a second, within a riveted, heafty plastic sealed capusle. No sparks or hot elements exposed to the outside enviroment dripping in gasoline. Sounds like a tired marketing pitch, but this could actually save your life.
I don't have all the price quotes in yet, but can guess the final sales price for the 3 components, will be over $100, easy. I'm not so sure that people want to go ahead with such an expensive proposition. I know you folks could never duplicate on your own for what I would charge if you work for over 25 cents an hour, but still, it is expensive and I am throwing things out for comments.
I guess I should start out by saying that this kit is ment to replace aging Porsche wiring, not provide some magic cure to all that ails. I have done extensive paper calculations and real world testing. Some guys wanted me to use 1/0 or 2/0 cable on some runs. OK, that is huge and fat, weighs a lot, hard to run on install, and will save .05 volts at a full load at 115 amps. Guess what, your alternator will drop a couple volts in output at that load, so I don't think saving 0.05 volts when your alt just crapped 2.00 volts is what you want to spend you efforts at. You want to look at what happens at 60 amps. I'm going to stick with #1 AWG, which is heavier than stock and will have some good terminals on the ends.
I can go on more about this, but the bottom line is replace the sub-par wiring and try and get back above square one, not to the moon.
All the versions would come with supplemental items like the firewall stud cable ties (the ones Porsche charges $1.80 a copy for), a little drilled sanding sponge for cleaning up contact points (works very slick in tight places), a tube of dielectric grease, grommets etc. You supply tools.
There are 3 sub-members in the kit. All runs have tinned terminal ends that are crimped, soldered and sealed in silicone and glue lined heat shrink.
Negative Ground
o new military battery terminal clamp
o short run of #1 cable to body
o long run of #1 cable to engine block.
Positive to Starter and on to Alternator
o new military battery terminal clamp
o run to starter is #1 cable with fiberglass heat and abrasion sleeve
o run from starter to alternator is #4 cable with fiberglass heat and abrasion sleeve and a LittelFuse inline 175 amp fuse at starter end to prevent battery current inrush from adding 600+ amps to any potential short situation
Supplemental Positive Feed to Fuse/relay Board
o Seperately terminaled inline LittelFuse at 150 amps (or higher if you so choose) as the primary feed off battery to connect all the positive spaghetti to, outside of the single battery/starter run. With the seperate terminal ends on the fuse, you just unscrew it to replace.
o And if the above blown fuse was a fluke of some sort, an extra bolt will be enclosed so you can direct wire, watch and smell for smoke and glowing, molten wires, and get on your way if none of that is happening.
o #4 gauge sister wire to the fuse board. Covered in fiberglass sleeve. This will help people that have not rewired forward lights, a lot.
Well that is the basic outline and many of you know how I approach jobs and the quality I produce.
To start the discussion off, the 150 amp positive fuse off the battery post will probably not protect the several little gauge wires as they will melt apart at 150 amps current in a short. But it will blow if a short involves several or the supplemental #4 gauge. Your big risk on this package of wires is that you crash, pinch them and hard short out and start on fire while you are trapped in the car or unconscious. This fuse will blow in under a tenth of a second, within a riveted, heafty plastic sealed capusle. No sparks or hot elements exposed to the outside enviroment dripping in gasoline. Sounds like a tired marketing pitch, but this could actually save your life.
12-30-2002, 08:17 PM
#3
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Bring it on... just let us know when and how much of a deposit you'd like. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
12-30-2002, 09:04 PM
#5
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I have a couple of questions.
The #4 sister wire to the fuse box is there an extra place to hook this up at the fuse box?
Can you post a picture or a link to the battery terminals you are going to use?
With the seperately terminated 150 amp fuse there will be some kind of terminal to hook a couple of wires up to it? Is the #4 sister wire going to hook up to that? And is that going to be a piece #1 wire then?
The #4 sister wire to the fuse box is there an extra place to hook this up at the fuse box?
Can you post a picture or a link to the battery terminals you are going to use?
With the seperately terminated 150 amp fuse there will be some kind of terminal to hook a couple of wires up to it? Is the #4 sister wire going to hook up to that? And is that going to be a piece #1 wire then?
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12-30-2002, 10:58 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Sure Todd, you can get just the negative. That is probably the best bang for the buck. I'm not looking at my order list as it is very long with screen names salted in. Wait for prices and send in a check if you want the negative. But that is probably sold out on this 500 foot spool of #1. I can get another quick, or smaller one, if there is still enough interest.
Taz, you ask a lot of questions! LOL!
Go to Molex's site (just type in Molex in Google) and look for part 19218-0083 and 0084. Those are the battery terminals.
The #4 sister wire has a great place on the side of the fuse box to connect to. One of the regular connections, just turn the terminal around, everything fits fine. You do have to punch a 3/4" hole through the sheet metal next to the fuse box to do this right, though. So check hole saws for a small 3/4" one. I include grommet. This is not a problem if you have an IQ above a rock. Seriously.
The battery to starter cable comes directly off a bolt on the military battery side bolt. That cannot be reasonably fused.
There will be a seperate VERY short fused cable from LittelFuse that will screw together with a 1/4 x 20 SS machine screw that will hook everything else up together on the positive side, including the #4 sister wire. Yeah, you can add more positives if you get a longer bolt.
If you are planning on adding a 1000 watt amplifier, you better get a heavier fuse. They fuse up to at least 200 amps at only #4 AWG as it is so short, 5 1/2" including the terminals.
Taz, you ask a lot of questions! LOL!
Go to Molex's site (just type in Molex in Google) and look for part 19218-0083 and 0084. Those are the battery terminals.
The #4 sister wire has a great place on the side of the fuse box to connect to. One of the regular connections, just turn the terminal around, everything fits fine. You do have to punch a 3/4" hole through the sheet metal next to the fuse box to do this right, though. So check hole saws for a small 3/4" one. I include grommet. This is not a problem if you have an IQ above a rock. Seriously.
The battery to starter cable comes directly off a bolt on the military battery side bolt. That cannot be reasonably fused.
There will be a seperate VERY short fused cable from LittelFuse that will screw together with a 1/4 x 20 SS machine screw that will hook everything else up together on the positive side, including the #4 sister wire. Yeah, you can add more positives if you get a longer bolt.
If you are planning on adding a 1000 watt amplifier, you better get a heavier fuse. They fuse up to at least 200 amps at only #4 AWG as it is so short, 5 1/2" including the terminals.
12-30-2002, 11:03 PM
#9
Okay, for real here... how much to have you do a complete wiring harness for an '86 951? With the battery cable harness and the headlight harness, there's not that much left besides the DME engine harness, right? I would love to have the same quality of wiring throughout...
If you are interested in doing this, sign me up for all of it. If you would like to do a one-off project, let me know. I know the cost might be a bit extreme, but I would be interested in at least talking about it. I live in KC and make it up to MN on a regular basis, so dinner/beer is on me if you would like to discuss it.
Regards, ...Scott
If you are interested in doing this, sign me up for all of it. If you would like to do a one-off project, let me know. I know the cost might be a bit extreme, but I would be interested in at least talking about it. I live in KC and make it up to MN on a regular basis, so dinner/beer is on me if you would like to discuss it.
Regards, ...Scott
12-30-2002, 11:12 PM
#11
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Scott, it would be horribly expensive and you don't need it for most of the wiring.
Just hit the high points. As much as I would like to help you out and will meet you for a beer, forget it on entire wiring harness.
Hit the problem childs and specific bad guys. Not a Nuke Attack. That will work and life will be good. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Just hit the high points. As much as I would like to help you out and will meet you for a beer, forget it on entire wiring harness.
Hit the problem childs and specific bad guys. Not a Nuke Attack. That will work and life will be good. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
12-30-2002, 11:16 PM
#12
Well, we can still meet for beer, right? 
To be honest, the main thing I want to do it clean it up a bit, as your cables make the factory stuff look like junk... lol
Regards, ...Scott
To be honest, the main thing I want to do it clean it up a bit, as your cables make the factory stuff look like junk... lol
Regards, ...Scott
