FabilichuS

So what happend to this ?
I would like to add if u have more than 200hp in a NA car you would need 2 upgrade ur tranny and TTube ?

rgs944

I think most people who want more power in a NA just want a little more. I know that is subjective but I know I would be very happy with another 60 Hp taking it to a modest 200 or so. I really believe the entire drivetrain of the 944 should be plenty strong to handle that. So from what have I learned so far is that supercharging is a good idea as long as it is kept on a very moderate boost and you do not beat the hell out of the car all day everyday. And if you can build it yourself for a few thousand bucks it sounds much better than spending money on a Turbo conversion or LS1 and a lot easier.

pjburges

If you want the 200hp get an S2. Or get an S and mod the hell out of it for high revs and you might get 180 ish at the wheels.

What about a chevrolet 283 with aluminum heads? Bet you could get 20+ with the right carb and tons of torque!

tifosiman

I disagree on the drivetrain being strong enough. 944 transaxles were utilized on cars that had 143hp. To add 60 more horsepower and assume that it would be OK is probably not a good idea, especially since there is enough of a track record of failed 944 transaxles with just the stock horsepower numbers.

Just my opinion.

944CS

There is also a track record of 944 Turbos using 944 transaxles with success. Ultimately it comes down to the driver. You can put a hell of a shock load on a R&P if you are abusive, or in the "wrong" environment (left or right lane of a drag strip comes to mind).

V2Rocket

i used to be skeptic of the NA r/p weaknesses because i would launch it hard frequently...but one day, having not horsed around like that in a long time, cruising on the highway, my R/P shattered...

FabilichuS

If I add more bearings to the TTube it will hold and be strong as the Turbo one, but the tranny is what im thinking about. They are not realy strong if they are not overhauled or new, and have a bad ratio for accelerating. Maybe a S2 or Turbo tranny would be good with an overhauled TTube

And I don't want a turbo, LS1 or anything like that her in Norway since its a bitch to get for a legal street car... Adding a SC and getting 200-222hp is plenty for my car, all I want is alittle more power and power from 0-100km/h
Was planning on saving for the Stage 2 944 Supercharger system after the summer since im using all my cash on getting the engine reseal, interior and some bodymods now.
What standalone supercharger could be cheper and deliver same power that the SFR one ? Just wanna compair price of putting the kit together myself or buy complet.

tifosiman

I really wouldn't lay the blame completely on the driver.

V2Rocket

pretty certain the tubes, bearings, and driveshafts are identical.

FRporscheman

No, there are differences. Early bearings had bearing carriers which were riveted together, and late bearing carriers were not riveted. Late tubes had extra dog ears for crash safety (the ears would hook onto the torsion tube in a crash). Furthermore the S2 torque tube has a lengthwise split about maybe 1.5' long, supposedly to damp vibrations from the larger 3.0L motor.

I think the bearings and driveshafts themselves are the same.

rgs944

Af far as me and a lot of people our cars have a lot of personal value so that is why we do not want to spend the money and hassle changing cars. I believe taking that extra 30% or so more power and using it to do burnouts everyday it would probably not last long, nor would any car. The next driver can use the HP every once in while to pass traffic on the freeway or the occasional rush in excelarating from 60 to 90 and probably not have any problems. Remember just because the extra power is there does not mean you need to be stupid about it and turn your car into a race car. Just using the extra power to accelarate quickly from a stop light without flooring it and rapping the engine out to 6000rpms would be nice. I really do not believe any car manufacturer of any credebility ever made a car that could not handle an extra 60 HP when driven sanely.

ritzblitz

you dont really make a whole lot of sense there buddy ^^

FabilichuS

rgs944 - I think the NA engine could handle alot of crazy driving with an extra 60hp, its more the clutch and tranny I am worried about

tifosiman

You should check your math. 60 is more than 30% of 143.

That's a huge increase, as a percentage, over and above the parameters of what the car was designed for.

Not the same thing, but I'll use this as an example. I work in the bicycle industry in product development and design. For product that is in the mass market, there is a specified weight load limit that the frames must be tested to (ie, "maximum rider weight"). As a rule of thumb, we usually test to 20% over that limit when doing bump and fatigue testing. It would be ridiculous, and costly, to build and test to 40-50% over the max weight limit. The product would be over-engineered and too expensive.

To think that Porsche (/Audi/VW) engineers designed/built/specified the parts with an extra 60hp load in mind would probably be erroneous. That's the exact reason the 951's have so many changes and upgrades compared to 944's. To handle the extra speed, horsepower, weight, etc.

You can design anything to be super strong and last forever if money and selling price are no object.

Mark944na86

And combined experience over 944 owners over the years add the empirical dimension to Tifo's argument: the NA 944 gearbox is a proven weak link, even for the power produced by a stock engine.

Search "ring and pinion" and see for yourself.

Adding engine hp without also upgrading the gearbox (at least) is crazy stuff.