ejsaenz

I took my car to Precision Porsche in Riverside for a clutch, rear main seal and motor mount replacement. the guy finished the clutch and RMS but now he called me and said that the car won't start.

It's got spark and starter, but no fuel I guess, we tried arming and disarming the alarms, the factory one and an aftermarket alpine SEC-8048. The car turns over but won't start still. The Alpine has starter disable, but I don't know if the factory alarm kills the fuel pump.

any suggestions anyone? He wants to charge me for his time troubleshooting an issue my car didn't have before taking it to the shop. Is there anyting that could have come loose relating to the fuel pump when he replaced the clutch??

Help!!!

I'm about 50 miles away and I'm having him check for power at the fuel pump right now. So it's kinda hard for me to do anything other than offer suggestions. I've got Monday off so i may have to get AAA to tow it home so I can fix it if he can't get it to start.

Would it be his responsibility/ fault that it messed up or is it mine??

Thank you in advance.

Ernie

J Berk

The last time I had a problem like that it wasa bad fuel pump...the pump would run but not build pressure in the fuel rail.

I would say it's up to your wrench to figure out why a car that ran before he worked on it won't run now.

If he finds that it's something he has had nothing to do with (I am assuming he's honest like my wrench) then you should pay...otherwise it's on him.

Clint's 944

reference sensors?

KuHL 951

I think we have a winner...they probably have it gapped wrong or the male connector cracked at the bracket end when they pulled the bellhousing. Hopefully the sensor wasn't damaged during removal.

ejsaenz

Will the sensor kill the fuel pump? The mechanic says the car has spark...

Clint's 944

The speed and reference sensors are located on the bellhousing...which he removed to do the clutch and rms. Now, assuming the car ran fine going in, my best guess is that he messed the sensors up or possible forgot to put them back on. However, he could have also messed something up at the fuel pump since he needed to drop the tranny as well.

Ask him if the tach is bouncing while turning it over. If no...reference sensors. If yes.... I'd look at the fuel pump. Have him check for pressure at the rail.

By the way, he should not charge you for troubleshooting an issue that came up while they were working on it. Especially considering that what is wrong could have been easily caused by his work. After they fix it...at no charge...find another mechanic.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

KuHL 951

I'm not sure if the S2 is the same but on 8V engines I thought the reference sensor signal is critical for the DME to initiate a start sequence and feed the DME relay a signal to trigger the fuel pump. Clarks Garage is loaded with explanations but I tend to work backwards when something goes wrong. Your recent clutch job effects the sensors. Good luck it's probably a simple fix.

Fuel Issues

JET951

Hi Ernie , If there is spark as the mechanic did mention, then the reference sensor is operational and is sending its signal to the ECU.
Regards .BB.

Wipeout

Ernie, I think these guys have it right. Steve, in particular, may have hit this one right on the head (as usual!). But, for your reading pleasure, here's a list of all the alarm threads I was reading while troubleshooting the alarm on my '89. Not all of them will apply to you, but the general information is helpful. It's an html file, but I renamed it to .txt so I could attach it...you'll want to rename it back.

bjzorn

The S2 has one Reference Sensor on the back of the bell housing, not two like the 8v cars. I would agree with everyone else and say I would check the reference sensor first, for proper gapping. He may need to add one of the spacers rings. P/N# 944.101.335.00 or 951.101.325.00. Depending on the gap(0.3 or 2.0).

ejsaenz

Thank you all for your suggestions. I'm saving them as PDF's to take to the mechanic's shop on Monday. He never got back to me whether the Fuel Pump was receiving power or not.

I'm going to bypass the alarm and see if that helps. I also want to verify that spark exists.

This is so upsetting. I spent a while looking for a decent shop and I guess I still have yet to find one. I didn't have the resources to do the clutch job at home so I had to farm it out. Now I totally regret my decision. He's got 40 years working on Porsche cars, so I figured it would be ok. I had a weird gut feeling when I left my car, I should have followed it and took back the car. 20/20 and all that. My wife is really ticked off about the call, she wants heads to roll.

Sorry, had to vent.

Once again, thank you all for the suggestions and I'll post back with what I find on Monday.

JET951

Hi Ernie , I would not be suprised at all that it will be one of the two alarms in the car causing the issue . We come across non standard alarms(fitted to Porsche cars) at our work every week and ever now and then you disconnect a the battery to do a repair job ,say a clutch etc ,only to find when the battery is reconnected(the next day) the non standard alarm does not want to play ball ,and in nearly every occasion there is H/T spark and the engine cranks over normally , but there is no fuel (no power to pump).So there is in my opinion no reason to be upset with the repairer because he has done the following .

A) completed the repairs as requested .
B) tested to see what was present(H/T spark) when the engine would not start and what was not present (fuel pressure).Which means the reference sensor is connected correctly , because if was not there would not be any spark.
c) telephoned quickly to keep you informed
d) has not damaged the car in any way (going by whats in the posts), so I am confused why heads have to roll ?.

The only thing I may have done slightly differently(if there was time) is to isolate the said problem to say a non genuine alarm control unit and temporarily bypassed it to double check , but remember this is time consuming and time(deadlines) may well have been the clincher in the equation .

Note , the standard Porsche alarm is a two point alarm , meaning it disables the ignition and fuel systems , but allowes the starter to crank.
Non stardard (aftermarket) alarms can be one, two or three point alarms , and its also up to the idividual who fits the alarm to choose how many to connect , but most non standard alarms we see are mainly connected via the earth wire to the DME relay only , which means that particular non standard alarm may well have the ability to disable more but was not done .

Regards .BB.

Luis de Prat

Yes, it does. I shipped my S2 across the Atlantic back in 2003 and it had the same nonstart issue as yours when it arrived after 2 months.

I agree. You need to bypass the DME relay in the fuse box (do a search for this) using a jumper wire and 3 spades and your car will start.

I suspect the factory alarm module in your S2 is broken. It's a cigarrette pack sized box behind the DME, under the passenger side floorboard.

The factory alarm module can be bypassed (search Clarks Garage for how) or you can replace with a new one, athough they cost over $100.

When I had this issue I bypassed the DME relay for a few days to start the car, ordered a new alarm module and replaced it myself. Started fine ever since.

Good luck!

KuHL 951

Good info indeed and you are probably right. That is more likely the problem if he has spark like he said. I've never had an issue with any of my factory alarmed cars (one with an aftermarket alarm also) up to 86. Maybe the S2 has different circuit design. It's certainly the easiest test to just bypass the alarm control module and try to start it. Now they need to figure out where to bypass his aftermarket alarm unit, there's half the fun right there I go through this every time I disconnect my battery on the black car. When reconnected the alarm goes off, I have to stop it with the remote, put the key in the ignition, and reset a button under the dash.

ejsaenz

I just called the mechanic. He got my cabbie running!!!!

The problem ended up being in the fuel pump connector. He checked the pump wiring and noticed the connector was loose. He disconnected it and reconnected it and the car started!! He then wiggled the connector and it shut off. He's gonna splice out the connector and heat shrink butt splice it back together. No charge! Now I'm just waiting on a new motor mount and pick-up is expected this Friday!!!

Thank you all for all your input and informational resources. I was interesting reading and I may remove all the alarms and installing a more reliable modern unit.

You guys rock!

I guess I did find a decent mechanic, hopefully the car is awesome on Friday and hope to be sending him work as I need it done.