Tom R.

It was great to be able to talk to you guys without getting yelled at by Marc to take our stations.

I spent the last hour studying three Firebird catalogues. anytime i use the car i get the interior bug. gotta leave it alone for a few weeks to get the bug out again.

I am about as red as the firebird.

My car should be ready this week, but im not going to autcross the motor that soon. I will probably use the Aurora and take baby Marisa to her first autocross.

Ski

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>It is a dynapack dyno, bolts up directly to the hubs.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Is this some sort of portable dyno? Never heard of it....

GURU chips are set up for certain parameters, the base sets are not set up for MAF. I don't think danno ever stated that he was A/F perfect. What has happened is that people have given danno previous dyno sheets before he sent out chips and he has helped many people, including me; Mustang dyno, 282 - 290 respectively. A/F started at 11.4-6 at onset of boost - 3900, climbed with rpm as 5000 brought 12.1, 6000 brought 12.6:1, second revision of chips.

adrial

Bret,
None of the cars that raun guru chips had the stock AFM.

Check google for more info on the dynapack.

jimbo1111

Jim's 951 (the SFR stage 2 car), let out a huge black cloud of smoke along with a huge pop after its last pull. We all thought it blew up...hehehe

(The operator hit the revlimiter.)

I do have to say though. I have never seen a stock turbo S put down 300rwhp.

Could it be that something is wrong with this dyno?

Dan87951

Wow Adrial does your car seem to run strong or did you dectect some problems and deciede to take it to the dyno to tune it in? Seems like you would be above the 300HP mark with those mods? What kind of injectors are you running? What kind of chips as well?

Ken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Ken, how did your n/a do? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I got 120HP at 6000RPM. I would have liked them to take it to redline but they had already unbolted everything and put the car down before I realized it. They were in a rush to get it done too so I didn't want to argue. Looking at the curve, if I redlined at 6500 and my power didn't drop off(it doesn't look like it should), I might end up with 125.

The sheet says peak torque was 130, but the curve is kinda screwy. The peak occurs at 2495rpms, which is where the graphs starts and then it shoots down to ~114TQ at 3000rpms, and then looks like the curve I'd expect. The peak I'd consider correct would land around 121TQ at 4250rpms. I'll have to post it and try to get some opinions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'm going to check this out further-do the 944 guys get a 25% drivetrain loss like my hp numbers would suggest?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The guy who did my run said 23-25%. Calculating that out for me I get a peak HP of 155-160. Alittle higher than the factory would state, but I like it! Sorry I missed you Damian, I would've really liked to see that yellow cab. I bet it was a great day to have the top down. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

adrial

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Dan87951:
<strong>Wow Adrial does your car seem to run strong or did you dectect some problems and deciede to take it to the dyno to tune it in? Seems like you would be above the 300HP mark with those mods? What kind of injectors are you running? What kind of chips as well?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">My car wasn't run on the dyno...which car are you talking about?

Waterguy

Porsches lose about 15% through the tranny, at least that is what we saw at the Seattle dyno day (944 and 951). Sounds like the dynopack is reading lower the a Dynojet.

Curious about the 951S that had higher HP than torque (300 hp/266 tq.) All the 951S cars in Seattle had big torque, lower HP (300 ft-lbs, 260 hp with chips.) Mine was low for the 951S cars with 236 rwhp, 244ft-lbs. Probably Autothority chips and jetted banjo bolt, rich mixture. Will be converting to Guru chips when the budget (ie. wife) allows.

adrial

If the dynapack is reading lower than a dynojet...then my car was making some SERIOUS power for a bone stock 951S 1 year ago when I dynoed it.

It put out 220 lb/ft and 235 hp to the wheels...

So I dont think the dynapack is reading low.

Also, what I'm noticing is that the Turbo S cars are making more hp than torque, while the standard Turbo cars are making more torque than hp. Because hp is a function of torque, I think we need to take a look at the torque peak for the turbo's and turbo S's. What I think we'll find is that the Turbo S's make peak torque at a later RPM...and generally have more torque later in the rev range because of the bigger turbo...this then correlates to more HP.

Dan Gallagher

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>Bret,
None of the cars that raun guru chips had the stock AFM.

Check google for more info on the dynapack. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">mine had the stock afm, just has a funky cone filter from broadfoot attached to it.

Ski

I was just curious about the leaness that a couple of people got. My first set of chips were rich mid range and then leaned out a bit in the upper rpms.

The Ve numbers for the engine itself is the same on the 2.5 but the amount of air from a MAF unit will certianly be greater, creating a lean condition. Also, everyones FQS switch on the DME was where it should be?

I still run factory AFM on the Kokeln intake, which has a pc off the turbo that places the factory AFM to a similar location as the MAF would be, along with the filter.

For those who ran rich - a past history. The first time I took the car to the dyno, it was greyhound bus rich, put down 238/230. Second time, still rich(software was the same - Kokeln) but it came up to 254/262. INsert GURU, car runs MUCH better, then I got a wideband. Danno did a set of chips based on the readings I was giving him - last dyno was 282/290.on a Mustang.

Sounds like a fun day was had by all....

TIMM BALDAUF

Adrial,
My car also had a stock AFM & stock air filter
housing,just a K&N filter(we all know how much HP they make!!)I will talk to Danno & see what he
can do about my mid range lean condition.I will
post my charts if I can get my scanner to work.
Fun day with everyone.Thanks Adrial.

Geoffrey

Just a point of clarification, all of the Dyno runs that took place were done in 4th gear with the gear ratio calculated by multiplying the gear ratio with the ring and pinion ratio, including the 968s that had the 6spd. The only car that was run in 3rd gear was the black slantnose I was tuning at the end of the day which has a 4spd trans which required 3rd gear. (460hp btw)

A Dynapack dyno is one of the newest types of dyno and is very very accurate and repeatable. It acts like an engine dyno where the dyno controls the car, and can hold the car at a specified rpm. I like this dyno much better than the strap on chassis dynos and is much better for tuning, especially a stand alone EFI system where you need to hold an RPM and load to map a specific ignition or fuel site.

Jim's car was the most curious and was detonating pretty bad up top which could be seen by the whitish smoke after about 5000rpm. My opinion is that it really needs smaller injectors, higher fuel pressure and some proper computer tuning.

I've been thinking some about the 944 turbo runs and the rich condition I see between 3500-5000 and then the progressively leaner condition as the car goes to redline. I would have very much liked to see a completely stock AFR curve, but like all of us turbo owners, we can't leave things alone.

When I put the MoTec in my car, I set it to run 14.7-15.5 afr around cruise and then it drops to a steady 12.3afr all the way to redline. I see slightly more power at 12.5-12.8, but being an air cooled car it really needs some extra fuel since the cylinder head temps vary.

All-in-all it was a good time and I enjoyed very much meeting you guys.

Damian in NJ

Geoffrey, can you tell me the ring and pinion ratio Rick used for the 968's?

Dan87951

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>Well, I learned a lot.

One key lesson: Big turbo + fuel does not = power.

Stage 2 SFR turbo + injectors + MAF + 20psi = 267 RWHP
(Though it held 20psi to redline)

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Adrial, I was talking about this car.