Whisper

The story so far:

Buy Andy's (Mongo's) old N/A when he sells it to make room for his new 928.

Six months, everything happy, car well sorted, install MaxHP chip, car happy.

Then, timing belt dies 9000 miles after replacement. None of us have any idea why. Best we can figure is its a bad belt. Toll is bent valves, etc.

Bring fellow lister with great automotive wisdom out to shop to inspect open engine. He says a head swap should do the trick. Order rebuilt cylinder head, have shop rebuild top end of engine. Three weeks later, shop calls, says fuel injectors are leaking on reassembly. Ship them rebuilt set of injectors.

Shop calls, it's ready.

Pick up, drive home. I quickly notice it's anemic as hell. This car used to be a 200ish hp pocket tiger. Now it's a kitten. And it whines.

Start it the next day (today), it gets fifteen feet out of the parking space and dies. Won't restart, but I can hear it turning over.

Borrow vehicle from long-suffering friend to get to work. Invent new swearwords. Sulk.

So does anyone who isn't an ignoramus like me have any idea what happened? Please tell me it was the shop's fault, and I don't have to throw more money at this...

tifosiman

Take it back to the shop. If it didn't run right when you brought it home, then there was something amiss right away.

Unless Andy's car was an "S", then it wasn't 200ish hp.

Whisper

Well, I was only taking his word. But it was a lot stronger than others I've driven.

Yeah, I'll talk to the shop (still at work right now), but any ideas would be welcome.

Anyone?

Landseer

Be present when they pull the timing cover. You want to see if the timing belt is whining from contact with the plastic back cover against the block. I did one and missed a washer, whined bad. Cut the back cover / melted. It might run-in after a while, but in 5 miles, my belt was messed up a bit, and cover had a cut where belt contacted it. Sounds like some rollers or tensioners or associated hardware might be out of sequence, or wrong, or both.

Mild whine is ok from balance shaft initially. Mine was very pronounced, and was timing belt.


Timing may be off a tooth or more. You want to watch the tech put the crank at TDC and show you the cam alignment marks.

A sensor may not be hooked up, causing a timing shift electronically. Lots of possiblilties, probably multiple issues.



Respectfully, how can you guys afford having shops do work? The only way I can play in this sport is DIY.

Mike C.

"The only way I can play in this sport is DIY" I copy that.

There are many things it could be. Any more details?

V2Rocket

check for spark...they might have put your distributor on wrong...

i might be back up there this week, if i am ill check it out.

Whisper

That sounds possible. The severe power loss does sound like it might be a timing issue. But why would that prevent it from starting?

Oh, I know what balance belt whine sounds like. Had that before. Nothing compared to this.

I thought the timing was all mechanical?

The only way I can play this sport is with money. I don't have the garage space or the knowhow.

I'm an aerospace software engineer on a large defense project, so they are generous with the scratch. It still hurts, though. I've spent about $3000 so far on this issue alone, plus about $600 in car rental while it was in the shop. No fun at all.

Randy V

Tell Mongo I said to give you the 928.

Whisper

Oh, great. Then I could have twice the headaches.

FRporscheman

Did you use to run 91 fuel in it? Sometimes when there is enough carbon buildup on the pistons, it can raise the compression, and when used with high octane fuel it basically gives you more horsepower. I'm assuming the shop cleaned your pistons while the head was off, and this might explain why it feels slower. It shouldn't be very noticeable though. If you say it went from tiger to tigger, there's probably something else going on.

A big advantage of being a DIYer is that when the car dies in the driveway, you don't need a tow truck to take it to the mechanic! I hope your issue gets resolved.

jmd_forest

Since you paid the shop to fix it and they didn't, it should be their responsibility to sort it out. That being said, I'd at least want a rough idea of the problem before it goes back. Time to review the basics: spark, fuel, timing, and compression.

1) Pull each plug wire, insert new plug, ground plug, crank engine, observe for spark. Best done in dark.
2) Crank engine over a few times, loosen big nut at front of fuel rail, fuel should spurt out under high pressure. Remove nut (save ball bearing under the nut) attach hose and run to container, crank engine, lots of fuel should flow.
3) Remove dist cap and line up cam gear timing mark with timing mark on housing. Inspect flywheel timing mark through view port by ref sensors. Verify timing lines up EXACTLY.
4) Get a compression tester. Follow the instructions and do a compression test.

These tests should at least begin to point you in the right direction. Should not be more than 2 hours of testing, probably less.

jmd_forest

V2Rocket

when i checked out his car in the shop's parking lot the carbon didnt look too bad. the pistons were blackened but there wasn't really any buildup. the pistons looked fine to me, the valve reliefs were still in good shape.

devon, where did you get the rebuilt head from?

M758

If it died one day after you picked it up take it back to the shop. The should should look it over and figure out what is wrong as there is good chance they mess-up something. Of course the failure could be unrelated, but have them look at it first.

As for the whining. It is probably a the balance belt being a bit too tight. Not a big deal to fix by the shop.

Whisper

944online. I think a lot of people around there use them.

UPDATE: I haven't had time to even call the shop (50 mile commute + work is close to a major release date), but I did take five minutes to try to start it again this morning and it ran. Still anemic, still whining, but ran. I'm starting to think it's the timing.

ScoobySteve

Well, a good buddy can help with the garage space, knowhow, and most importantly -- tools.

Financially, I do okay and since 944 is a secondary vehicle, it takes a lot of pressure off if I have to wait a week or two. BUT, I find there are a lot of advantages (other than financial) to wrenching yourself:

1. You gain an intimate familiarity with the underside of your car
2. You may find it somewhat relaxing (once you get the hang of it)
3. You'll have extra money for fun stuff

and most importantly...

4. You'll have a much more pleasant attitude when things break. It won't seem like nearly as big of a deal and you'll be a lot happier -- I promise.

BTW, I came from an anti-handy family so I figure if I can do it -- anybody can do it.