Dan Gallagher

i have been wanting to get koni yellow shocks and the paragon coilovers on my car for a while but i wasnt really able to afford all the parts.

i just found this auction on ebay:
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33590&item=2400027968" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33590&item=2400027968</a>

the question:
it says they are off an 87 turbo, will these fit on my 88 n/a by any chance?

Tom R.

Dan,
the coilovers automatically put you in modified for SCCA, and I think metroNY too. which would mean you go up against Henry Hoeh who placed second in his class at the nationals, was autocrosser of the year etc.

He is the zone rep. he showed up at the march autocross at tobay during the afternoon runs with his truck. i offered him my car and we took some blue tape and made a 1 in front of my 86. without walking the course, or ever driving my car before, he took two runs and beat my best time by at least five seconds, gave me a piece of advice on one turn and i shaved a few seconds. His time after two runs was faster than P9 which had me clyde lock, and i think adrial and his brother, and his time was faster than the modified 4 class. Imagine what he would have done in his own turbo S!

sure you want to go into the modified class with your NA against a turbo S with Henry driving?

thedyingiraffe

I believe they will fit... they should be the

P/N: FR 8641-1414S and Rr 8040-1035S

Steve Lavigne

Yeah, don't buy those shocks!

<img border="0" alt="[oops]" title="" src="graemlins/oops.gif" />

Dan Gallagher

no, i definately dont want to go into modified but:

Suspension: Aftermarket shocks, struts, bushings, sway bars, springs and torsion bars are allowed in stock (P) classes. However, stock mounting points are required. No machining is allowed.

yes i will be installing aftermarket shocks and springs but i wont be fooling with the mounting points or machining any custom parts so as far as i see from the metro ny suspension rules i will still be p6. and for scca, i have never autocrossed with any other group so the metro ny rules are the only ones that i care about.

if i am wrong about these rules and the coilovers would make me modified then no i wont be buying this setup and i will be sad

btw tom: are you going to be selling your car or will i see you at autocross next season?

Dan Gallagher

tom- do you think i should e-mail marc figelman about this question or is there somebody else who knows the metro autocross rules & specifically 944 series cars? ...or am i just so obviously wrong that i shouldnt even waste their time?

Tom R.

Dan,
sounds like you are ok for metro. i put the yellows in with the stock springs and am very happy with the ride.

also, i just picked up GRM magazine and they are working on a MINI for autocrossing. they said something about stiffer suspensions slowing the car down on uneven (read tobay, coliseum) pavement. check out page 77, my car is the red 944 in the ad.

as for keeping or selling here is the deal. Jill has a screwed up back from when she was rear ended two weeks before the wedding (so not on my big insurance policy). as a result of the accident, and the fact the firebirds seats are the old fashioned low back, she cant sit in the firebird convert for more than 5 minutes. Automat wants 1000 for new seatcovers in the firebird, add anoter 300-500 for seats from a 69 which have headrests, and the list goes on.

also, the rx7 convert is a two seater. that means i have 2 converts. one my wife cant ride in, the other the kid wont be able to ride in. i figured i would sell the rx7 and the firebird and buy a clean bmw 325/328 convertible.

My brother just went in with another guy, and his office is in riverhead. he drives his gold 84 944 from atlantic beach to riverhead almost every day. that means in about 2 years the mileage will be about 150k. a perfect $4k car for racing - half that if we become partners in the car.

Also, a friend of mine from the lodge has a 97 328 in excelent condition, jill's first choice in color, handling package, harman kardon, rool hoops, unfortunately and automatic (nothing like a 70 year old in a sports car) that he will probably be selling come springtime.

end result is i will sell the rx7 and either the 944 or the firebird. I think i will have less remorse/regrets in a few year if i sell a 944 i owned for two years instead of the firebird ive owned for 26 years.

even if i sell the 944 i would probably run the replacement (bmw) a few years till i get my brothers 84.

get that out in one breath.

Tom R.

i think you are safe. however, i just got the post today, and on page 19 in figelmans colum he says "as always, the autocross committee will be meeting over the winter to review and update our rules and guidline. please send your comments and suggestions to me ASAP. thank you to those who have already sent their requests in.

might be worth contacting him to make sure one of those requests doesnt affect springs, or isnt a request to modify metros rules to mirror SCCAs.

marc's email is autox@optonline.net

Dan Gallagher

tom- where would i find grm magazine? i figured firmer was better, infact i was planning on going for new torsion bars and harder springs than 250# even! (i drive the bmw daily now so ride comfort in the porsche doesnt matter any more )

too bad to hear about the whole deal w/ getting rear ended, good luck with whatever you decide to do... and btw if you dont want to autocross the automatic bmw you could take my car out for a spin if you promise not to go o/c into a lightpole at the coliseum (which i think i almost did at my first autox when i goot a bit too excited)

also- i dont know if i told you i went to automat like you suggested to see the recaro srd seats, i love those seats but i think he said he wanted like $650 each (more for the ones w/ a hole for 5pt harnesses). today i was at rpm racing checking out some corbeau seats in the cars there, he told me he wanted about $50 per seat less for the recaros... but anyway, i think im going to w/ the forzaII fixed back seats.

rpm racing had some really nice cars in the garage (they are setting up a 944 n/a for autocross next year but it will be modified class, no interior or anything). the guy there was great & he was telling me all about each car until my mother dragged me away... she says i have an addiction.

Dan Gallagher

i didnt get the post yet, i guess i will get mine tomorrow or early next week. i am definately going to e-mail him about keeping the spring rules how they are! mny seems to be the only club that will let you make so many changes in stock classes so it wouldnt surprise me if they were changed.

Tom R.

I got GRM at the stop & shop in oceanside wednesday night. it was right at the checkout counter. last month i saw it at the waldbaums in oceanside, so i guess its available at the local supermarkets.

jill just started her ninth month, and just informed me im off to bed. I will post the quote for you tomorrow in a separate thread to maybe start some discussion on stiffness and autocross times.

craig001

Barnes & Noble carries GRM as well as Excellence, 911 & Porscheworld, and others. As far as the eBay auction goes, those are regular Koni Struts that have the Paragon kit installed. You might want to try to find a true M030 setup with the threaded sleeves. I may have a set without springs available. I bought them from a fellow Rennlister, but am in the process of buying a 911. I have my 944 Cab up for sale and I am going to offer the suspension setup as well as a bunch of other pieces parts to the buyer first. If the buyer (soon I hope) doesn't want the extra stuff then I will be selling it. There is an 8 vol. Factory Shop Manual set, some Techniks specific to the S2 Cab, fuse and relay boxes with the fuses and relays, cooling fan, hosed, vents and a set of 17" Cup 1's.

Dave

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dan Gallagher:
<strong> i am definitely going to e-mail him about keeping the spring rules how they are! mny seems to be the only club that will let you make so many changes in stock classes so it wouldn't surprise me if they were changed.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I may have mentioned this in a previous post but you should still make sure there OK now. I interpret the rule you posted as meaning that aftermarket springs are OK AS LONG AS they are seated in the stock mounting location. If this is correct, then Weltmeisters or such would be OK but these coilovers (because they require an adapter instead of sitting in the stock location)would bump you to modified. It's worth getting a ruling now as either of us could be correct and if someone were to protest you on it at an event, there would be the possibility of it not going your way. Be sure before you install.

Also consider if you ever plan to run in a Zone 1 event or at events in other (NNJR, etc) regions where modified classes have similar competition.

Tom R.

Dan,
Here is a Q&A i had before I installed just the koni's in my car. My wrench charged me about $200 to install all 4 shocks, and since he nows what he is doing (compared to most of us), he was able to keep the cars alignment intact.

I ordered the Koni (yellow) Sport inserts for the front (externally adjustable), and Koni Sport shocks for the rear (internally adjustable) of my 944S2. When I have the car apart I am thinking of changing the springs. What I found is that the spring perch on the S2 and 968 is different from on other 944s.

It seems my choices are a progressive spring for the front 190-230lb that lowers the car an inch, or height adjustable coil over kit.

The car is my daily driver, and I like the fact that it came out of the box with a balanced suspension. What do you recommend to keep the balance -- handling wise, and the balance between handling and ride that makes the car useable as a daily driver?

------------------------------

The Koni Yellows are awesome shocks for a 944. Before I had my 944 turbo, I had an 1986 944 for 9 years. I autocross that car allot and all I did to the suspension was Koni Yellows, bigger sway bars and an alignment. That's it and the car handled great especially with R-compound tires.

I do not think you should change springs. Stiffer springs will really make the ride comfort worse. Also stock springs do not wear out that much. The Koni shocks will make the car MUCH better and much stiffer than you have right now. Plus if you change the front springs, you MUST also change the torsion bars in rear to keep the balance of car correct. And changing the rear torsion bars is big money. Stiffer front springs without changing the rear, will make the car UNDERSTEER more than it does now. I think front springs are the last thing you should do. Also, aftermarket springs are not allowed in the SCCA Stock class. So if you even do an SCCA autocross event and you have stiffer springs, you would have to run in the Street Prepared class which are some very fast cars.

You should consider a more aggressive wheel alignment (i.e., more negative camber front and rear). This will use the tires much better during autocross runs at the expense of more tire wear on the inside edge during street driving. I would recommend around 1.5 degrees negative camber front and rear as a good comprise between high performance and tire wear. Best performance would be in the 2.0 to 3.0 degree negative camber range but this would wear the inside edge of the tires on the street.

Also, you could consider bigger sway bars. They are easy to change and they do not ruin the ride comfort like stiffer springs would. It will keep the car from leaning over too much which will keep the tires more square to the ground.

Last, I would suggest you consider R-compound tires before doing springs. Tires make the biggest difference and are the best bang to the buck. If you would like, I will bring my wheels and R-compound tires to an event and put them on your car. We can both drive the car and your can see A) what a difference the tires make and B) how fast your car can be with just some Koni shocks and an alignment!

Douglas_T

Craig: What are you asking for your 944 Cab?