RED87944S

i cant now i took it apart..i cant show a pic,i have to make a vid,in order to show whats happening...

RED87944S

is it safe for me to put the cams on but not the chain and spin the cam and see if the valves are bad..

RED87944S

i put it back together and now it wont even turn over..it could even be the started so tomorrow i will be doing some pushing with few people..i better not have a single problem after i fix this,i am so pissed at this car

Jay W

NO dont do that. You will be pushing valves into pistons. Very bad. So when you say long side of the chain etc that the chain gets a whole lot of slack on one side while the other side shortens? That happens because there is resistance on one cam which pulls hard on one side of the chain. Once you overcome the resistance, the cam moves which then releases that tension giving slack back to the other side of the chain.

Also to replace valves you have to take the head back off. The valves come out from the bottom of the head. Verify there is a problem with them before trying to take the head back off.

Jay W

Please recheck the alignment of the cams in relation to each other. Then check to make sure the top timing gear is sitting at the timing mark. Then make sure the bottom timing gear or mark at the rear of the engine is still at its timing mark. If all that is lined up properly the engine should turn with a wrench and no valves are hitting any pistons. Also with everything lined up the next step I would take is a compression test to see if the valves are opening and closing all the way. You need to be able to turn the engine with the starter to do a compression test.

jstand22

When you were turning the engine over you were turning it from the crankshaft gear right? You weren't trying to turn the cams alone right?

RED87944S

yes i turned the cams alone when the timing belt was off..i didt put too much force in to spining it..

is it ok to crank the engine not by hand,when the cams belt is off? that way i can figure out if the head has anything to do with it,i would also put the cams at TDC..

when i had the head of,there was a bit of antifreez that was in 2 or 3 cylinders only a bit,i tryed cleaning up most of it and even sucking it up with vacum but i know i did not get all of it..could that be causing a lock up,maybe a little bit of wd 40 in sparkplug holes would losen it up...i am just going crazy with all my ideas

RED87944S

yes thats what i mean..why would i be pushing the valves in to the cylinder if i am at TDC with cams and engine,shouldt it all line up right?

jstand22

no it's not ok, and I'm pretty sure you have damaged valves now

If the cam belt is off and you turn the cams, the valves will come down, but the pistons are not moving....The 944 engine is an interference motor, which means that there is not enough clearance for the valves to extend all the way if they are out of time with the piston....So If you crank the engine and you have a valve sticking down, and the cam belt is not attached how are the cams going to spin? They aren't, and a piston will slam into a valve.

RED87944S

now i understand this engine...how do i check the valves now???do you think they all are messed up???i guess ill go back in there and buy some used ones and put them in...ill have the time to go in there again next week...

jstand22

If you left the cams at TDC and cranked the engine over without the timing belt on you probably didn't bend all the valves...maybe 8 or so 4 intake 4 exhaust, maybe less, You'll have to pull the head to check the valves, and unfortunately I don't think you're going to find any used valves for this car. Inspect your pistons carefully too once you get the head off, it's possible one of those got damaged as well.

Jay W

The way to check if the valves are bad is to get all the timing marks lined up and the cams lined up. Put the timing belt on. Put the cam chain AND tensioner on. Put on a compression tester and spin the motor with the starter. If each cylinder has roughly 140 psi showing on the compression tester then the valves are fine. If they are bent then that cylinder will not make any compression because the valve never closes because it gets stuck at the bent part. Otherwise you pull the head and look at it visually. You cannot reuse the head gasket so you are out a head gasket if you take it apart.

RED87944S

the starter wont even spin the motor anymore..i dont have compression tester..god damn it i need a new gasket.. is there any other way of seeing if the valves r bent?

Jay W

If you take the cams out, the lifters should all be sitting at the same height. If a valve is bent and not closing all the way then it will be slightly farther into the combustion chamber. The lifters sit on the valves so any bent valves will sit lower, consequently having its lifter sitting lower in the head. The difference could be by millimeters so get a good measuring device.

Jay W

Forgot to mention. If any of the lifters are collapsed because there is no oil in them than this test will be inaccurate.