Front seals
12-05-2002, 06:31 PM
#2
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How many miles on the engine ? If the seals are fresh then don't bother but otherwise it is a lot of work to do over again in a few months if the old seals start leaking.
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12-06-2002, 09:23 AM
#3
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The car has 48,000 miles now and the belt and waterpump were done last at 30,000 miles. Just want to know if it is not leaking now should I do it. Also how diffcult is it to do when you are in there already? Thanks for any information provided.
gerd
gerd
12-06-2002, 11:00 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Gerd:
Changing the seals adds a good bit of work to the belt job. I would change them due to the age of the car.
Why are you changing the pump and belts with just 18k miles on them? Has it been five years or more on the belts?
There are many opinions on the belt change interval, but the range is generally 45k-60k or 5 years whichever comes first. Retension after 2500 miles and check/retension every 15k miles thereafter. New waterpumps usually last for 90k miles or even more.
If you decide to change the seals, be very careful to get the correct parts. The cam seal and spacer have been updated, and some suppliers are not aware of this. There are four rubber o-rings, three clear onion skin o-rings, four seals, three spacers and an oil pump sleeve. Leaving out any of these parts is just asking to do it again.
One thing to be sure to change is the stud for the cam belt tensioner roller. These have been known to break. The rollers (smooth and toothed) should also be checked very carefully and changed if there is any doubt in their condition.
Changing the seals adds a good bit of work to the belt job. I would change them due to the age of the car.
Why are you changing the pump and belts with just 18k miles on them? Has it been five years or more on the belts?
There are many opinions on the belt change interval, but the range is generally 45k-60k or 5 years whichever comes first. Retension after 2500 miles and check/retension every 15k miles thereafter. New waterpumps usually last for 90k miles or even more.
If you decide to change the seals, be very careful to get the correct parts. The cam seal and spacer have been updated, and some suppliers are not aware of this. There are four rubber o-rings, three clear onion skin o-rings, four seals, three spacers and an oil pump sleeve. Leaving out any of these parts is just asking to do it again.
One thing to be sure to change is the stud for the cam belt tensioner roller. These have been known to break. The rollers (smooth and toothed) should also be checked very carefully and changed if there is any doubt in their condition.
12-07-2002, 12:17 AM
#5
Drifting
Keith,
That's very good info. And I was just trying to remember which stud it was that we should change. Where can you find that part? Also, do you have any info on changing to oil pump sleeve? I'm suspecting that's where mine is leaking from, since the P.O. DIDN'T change that
Thanks,
sm
That's very good info. And I was just trying to remember which stud it was that we should change. Where can you find that part? Also, do you have any info on changing to oil pump sleeve? I'm suspecting that's where mine is leaking from, since the P.O. DIDN'T change that
Thanks,
sm
12-07-2002, 01:01 AM
#6
My personal opinion would be to go ahead and change it all unless you know when it was last done. I rolled the dice on my last belt change on my 86 951, and guess what? 10k miles later, I had a really nice oil leak... *sigh* so I get to do it again now. At least I know I won't have to change the rollers and the pump.
Regards, ...Scott
Regards, ...Scott
12-07-2002, 07:30 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
SM:
The part number is listed in the Parts Catalog in the Lubrication section. Mine is at the office, so I cannot give you the # now.
In order to change the oil pump sleeve, you must remove the crank bolt, pulleys, and crank gear. Once you get the crank gear off, it is easy to swap. It just slides right out. There is an o-ring between the washer and sleeve. It too shows up on the lubrication page, but not the cam drive page. Several have missed this o-ring, including the professional shop that worked on my car before I bought it.
In order to remove the crank bolt, you have to disconnect the battery, remove the starter, rotate the engine cw (looking at the front of the engine) until all the marks line up, lock the flywheel, and using a 24mm socket with a short extension on a breaker bar, break that thing loose. A cheater pipe on the breaker bar may be necessary to break it loose.
The part number is listed in the Parts Catalog in the Lubrication section. Mine is at the office, so I cannot give you the # now.
In order to change the oil pump sleeve, you must remove the crank bolt, pulleys, and crank gear. Once you get the crank gear off, it is easy to swap. It just slides right out. There is an o-ring between the washer and sleeve. It too shows up on the lubrication page, but not the cam drive page. Several have missed this o-ring, including the professional shop that worked on my car before I bought it.
In order to remove the crank bolt, you have to disconnect the battery, remove the starter, rotate the engine cw (looking at the front of the engine) until all the marks line up, lock the flywheel, and using a 24mm socket with a short extension on a breaker bar, break that thing loose. A cheater pipe on the breaker bar may be necessary to break it loose.
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12-07-2002, 08:32 PM
#8
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[quote]Originally posted by cruise98:
<strong>If you decide to change the seals, be very careful to get the correct parts. The cam seal and spacer have been updated, and some suppliers are not aware of this. There are four rubber o-rings, three clear onion skin o-rings, four seals, three spacers and an oil pump sleeve. Leaving out any of these parts is just asking to do it again.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's scary. I picked up a set of front seals for the balance shafts and crank [cam doesn't need attention at this time]. All I remember seeing are the hard rubber donut for the oil pump, a few clear rings, and the balance shaft seals...don't recall any spacers or O-rings. Not good.
<strong>If you decide to change the seals, be very careful to get the correct parts. The cam seal and spacer have been updated, and some suppliers are not aware of this. There are four rubber o-rings, three clear onion skin o-rings, four seals, three spacers and an oil pump sleeve. Leaving out any of these parts is just asking to do it again.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's scary. I picked up a set of front seals for the balance shafts and crank [cam doesn't need attention at this time]. All I remember seeing are the hard rubber donut for the oil pump, a few clear rings, and the balance shaft seals...don't recall any spacers or O-rings. Not good.
12-24-2002, 11:05 PM
#11
Drifting
[quote]cruise98 wrote: There is an o-ring between the washer and sleeve...Several have missed this o-ring, including the professional shop that worked on my car before I bought it.<hr></blockquote>
[quote]...the o-ring is #5. <hr></blockquote>
I see the o-ring and sleeve, but where is the washer that is referred to? It seems from reading the archives that the order of parts/seals for the oil sleeve is (from front to back):
crank seal
oil pump sleeve
o-ring
some sort of washer/mylar thing
Is that right? Thanks!
[quote]...the o-ring is #5. <hr></blockquote>
I see the o-ring and sleeve, but where is the washer that is referred to? It seems from reading the archives that the order of parts/seals for the oil sleeve is (from front to back):
crank seal
oil pump sleeve
o-ring
some sort of washer/mylar thing
Is that right? Thanks!
12-25-2002, 04:04 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
SM:
The washer (it is steel) goes on after the o-ring. It is not shown on this diagram.
Order of installation:
1. Lube seal with vaseline and insert the oil pump drive sleeve into the seal from the back side. This prevents the teeth on the sleeve from damaging the seal lips. Insert seal into oil pump. You have to align the oil pump drive while you are pressing the seal in. Usually thumb pressure is sufficient to seat the seal.
2. Lube and install the o-ring
3. Install the washer
4. Install the woodruff key
5. Install crank gear.
6. Etc., etc.
The washer (it is steel) goes on after the o-ring. It is not shown on this diagram.
Order of installation:
1. Lube seal with vaseline and insert the oil pump drive sleeve into the seal from the back side. This prevents the teeth on the sleeve from damaging the seal lips. Insert seal into oil pump. You have to align the oil pump drive while you are pressing the seal in. Usually thumb pressure is sufficient to seat the seal.
2. Lube and install the o-ring
3. Install the washer
4. Install the woodruff key
5. Install crank gear.
6. Etc., etc.